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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mermaids getting eaten from the inside out

193 replies

feelingcadoubleledlove · 31/01/2023 18:43

Simping fools

mermaidsuk.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/EDI-Audit_-Recommendations-and-Next-Steps.pdf

Mermaids getting eaten from the inside out
OP posts:
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28
FKATondelayo · 02/02/2023 22:15

The joyous latest episode of the Netflix saga is that they then made a lot of redundancies particularly in areas where pronouners made up a lot of the workforce - like social media. It's a coincidence but I like to call it karma.

There have been tens of thousands of redundancies in Silicon Valley over the past 2 weeks. I wonder if these protests will continue now tech is an employers' market after the Covid boom years. The thing is if you work in AI and automation and coding you can't possibly expect career longevity. Particularly if you're so fragile you can't do your job.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 03/02/2023 12:02

Interesting thoughts @FKATondelayo - it will be interesting to watch the changes in tech culture as the big companies scale back employee numbers for sure.

Compiling the list above took me to quite a few websites that I wouldn’t read on a day to day basis, tech and gaming news mostly but some serious business sites (eg Forbes) and some HR trade resources.
Most of the titles that have factually reported on the phenomenon of employees engaging in these political purity spirals that destroy productivity and eat away at the core company purpose until it’s hollow enough to risk the entire org collapsing in on itself are STILL writing puff pieces extolling the virtues of EDI and encouraging companies to prioritise it.

It’s like a dot to dot puzzle that no one is willing to complete.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 03/02/2023 12:21

In related news I was indulging in listening to some Royal Family related gossip on YouTube last night (guilty pleasure) and it occurred to me that Harry and Megan’s ‘Archewell Foundation’ must be absolutely riddled with this paralysing EDI guff?

Which would explain why they raised £13 mill but only managed to spend £3mill.

Imagine trying to sort worthy projects to fund using the intersectional victim hierarchy as your ‘praxis’?
Whilst obsessing over your media image so any selected charitable causes must perfectly reflect your woke brand?
But they mustn’t be too icky looking for a glamorous photo op, nor have any dodgy closet-skeletons for the press to dig up?
And they can’t be obvious poverty-related issues or you, The Duchess of Sussex will just look like a modern day Marie Antoinette?
And race based issues are a minefield because Meghan is married to a rich white man and personally benefits from colourism? And has pretty privilege?
And the one authentic issue they could lean into would be support for single parent families, but they are both at war with the divorced fathers who raised them!

It would make for an unintentionally hilarious Dragon’s Den style game show.

GrabbyGabby · 03/02/2023 13:34

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom your sleuthing is top rate and only covers those organisations that made it into the media. I know of several charities that have been eaten by the purity spiral of death, never to recover.

DowningStreetParty · 04/02/2023 08:49

I think we need to acknowledge it’s also a specific risk for any female led/run successful venture or community in the current climate.
In fashion the female-run ManRepeller website was rebranded as ‘Repeller’ by the staff to be more inclusive after the female founder had left under a cloud, then the whole thing folded weeks later. It might have happened anyway due to the pandemic but there was a lot of social media vitriol about lack of inclusivity being the flaw. There may well have been problematic businesses practices towards staff there, I don’t know, but the idea that businesses can’t legitimately just stay in a niche, or must have an overt political purpose as well as a business purpose seems very limiting.

www.gq.com/story/what-happened-to-man-repeller/amp

FannyCann · 04/02/2023 09:29

This is what happened to Rosie Kay and her dance company (sorry if it's already been mentioned, not read the full thread). But she has risen again like a phoenix and that reminds me, I need to get on and buy tickets - she is a coming to a theatre near me with the Five Soldiers piece.

SinnerBoy · 04/02/2023 09:45

@FannyCann

Yes, they forced her out and tried to take her name, but fortunately, lost that one.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 04/02/2023 12:46

DowningStreetParty · 04/02/2023 08:49

I think we need to acknowledge it’s also a specific risk for any female led/run successful venture or community in the current climate.
In fashion the female-run ManRepeller website was rebranded as ‘Repeller’ by the staff to be more inclusive after the female founder had left under a cloud, then the whole thing folded weeks later. It might have happened anyway due to the pandemic but there was a lot of social media vitriol about lack of inclusivity being the flaw. There may well have been problematic businesses practices towards staff there, I don’t know, but the idea that businesses can’t legitimately just stay in a niche, or must have an overt political purpose as well as a business purpose seems very limiting.

www.gq.com/story/what-happened-to-man-repeller/amp

Thanks for this, not a name I’ve ever heard of, which is a shame because it sounds like it was right up my fashion alley 🤣

It takes me a while to process these stories so I might have more thoughts on it later.

We had a thread recently called something like ‘what did you say to get banned from a FB group’ and this story reminds me of the general phenomena that’s been happening in FB groups aimed at women, where the language gets relentlessly policed eg ‘Don’t start posts with Hey Ladies! It’s upsetting for nonbinary members’ to the point where most of the posts are rules regarding what women can and can’t say until anything fun or useful about the group’s origin/purpose is gone.

I suspect anything run by or aimed at women is particularly vulnerable because women as a class are socialised to take care of others and so simple self advocacy is often interpreted as selfishness?
Even the very definition of feminism has been chiselled away at so that it’s no longer a thing for female people, despite well, the clue being in the name (eg ‘Feminism is for everyone! Feminism fights all oppression!)

I’m currently wondering about strategies for defeating the EDI Vampire and it’s notable that those who seem to have weathered the storm best are those that have taken decisive action to fuck it off. Obvs it’s best not to invite it in in the first place but in many cases it’s already got it’s feet under the table before anyone realises that the meal it intends to eat is the lifeblood of the entire organisation.

Coinbase and Basecamp had top bosses who were able to make decisions quickly and decisively whereas most charities are run by boards of trustees - that was the problem Rosie Kay had - left to her own devices she might well have just told the little woke shits to fuck off (although iirc her first instinct was to try to understand them better and her main failure was assuming that they would have a similar level of curiosity and generosity towards an older woman’s viewpoint)

Women’s orgs are obvs specifically targeted by woke activists (look at what’s happened at La Leche League!) but perhaps there is also something in the way that women bosses/leaders tend towards team working/listening to the collective that exacerbates it? And purity spirals are better able to take hold if there is no one at the helm willing to be the bad guy?

So Coinbase tell all the whingers to collect their last pay check and fuck off, whereas ManRepellent try and please everyone, minimise boss involvement and centre the whingers instead but pretty quickly end up closing the whole shebang down, including the business itself (reminiscent of how women will quietly self exclude when a man in a sports bra joins their women only gym).

Rosie Kay is a great example of how a woman with nothing left to lose (the Charity board even owned the right to her NAME) can come out swinging just as hard as the Coinbase/Basecamp chaps, ultimately surviving a purity spiral. She’s a modern day warrior woman and should definitely be recognised as such.

JK Rowling is another extraordinary woman, she has fuck you money and enough legal control over her intellectual property to not fear the mob, but she still had some moments early on where she wobbled when the SJW Vampire looked her way (remember the ‘Middle aged moment’ excuse for having the audacity to LIKE a terfy tweet?)

It’s weird and inconsistent to have to think about women as a class when we are discussing the danger of ID politics but if ID politics is TARGETING women as a class (and that definitely happens) we don’t really have any choice but to think about it this way.

It’s annoying because Crenshaw’s first example of the need for intersectional thinking was really important, but the resulting splinters have made everything shitter for all female people, rather than improving things for black women. The road to hell is paved with good intentions blah.

Perhaps the big difference between women and other EDI ‘identities’ is that the things that uniquely effect women as a class (being on average, smaller, less strong & less fast than men, being 100% responsible for all the pregnancy and child birth, living longer and thus being more likely to spend our last decades infirm) can never be completely solved by societal or political - we can tinker about with mitigating the consenquences but can never fix the cause… why start a project that can never be finished? Perhaps it is just much more satisfying to fight for other causes because the wins are more tangible?

How much of Women’s social behaviour is related to our mammalian biology (required traits for the sole purpose of survival of the species) and how much is crappy ‘Be Kind’ ‘Keep your knees together’ ‘Don’t say anything a man doesn’t want to hear’ socialisation? And how can women as a group help an individual woman tell the EDI Vampire to fuck off?

Obvs when it comes to Mermaids the best thing is to let one mythical beast eat the other (do Vampires like fish suppers? I hope so!) in order that a new sane, sensible org such as Genspect can step into the gap and provide factual information and emotional support for families dealing with gender distressed children and teens without immediately labelling those children as trans THEENDNODEBATE.

But what about the things we don’t want to see eaten by the vampire? Charities, political parties, businesses big and small, arts orgs, community social enterprises, THE FUCKING NHS!

How can the ‘lived experience’ of ‘service users’ and employees be fed back and integrated without taking over and decimating ‘professional experience?’

Absurdly extreme example here, but I don’t want my kid’s cancer treatment to be decided by a now adult survivor of childhood cancer (although I’m sure they have useful tips to share) I want an expert oncologist! One that is paying attention to cutting edge research, research that isn’t commissioned by and dominated by the opinions of adult survivors who have a pre set agenda based on a decades old experience.

Remember the old saying about organ grinders and monkeys? It would be pretty progressive of us to enable that monkey to BECOME his OWN organ grinder, right?
To seize the organ and hand it over to the monkey would be true social justice…

But if the monkey can’t PLAY the organ then there is NO MUSIC, the monkey has nothing to dance to & no one will chuck any coins in the hat on the ground.

It seems to me that at Mermaids, the monkey has been given the organ, but as yet, no one has acknowledged that the monkey can’t play it (and worse still, that the monkey is unwilling to put the work in to learn how to it)

Currently, fans of the monkey are still chucking money in the hat and waiting for the music to start up again.

At some point, they will start to realise that it’s gone awfully, awfully quiet

Perhaps a few will ask for their coins back.

Boiledbeetle · 04/02/2023 12:57

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom

Substack.

Seriously.

do it!!!!!!

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 04/02/2023 13:03

Blooming excellent post, @NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom !

FKATondelayo · 04/02/2023 13:41

Excellent post NSSB.

I'd also like to flag the film project Rub&Tug - a biopic of disputed / possible trans man Tex Gill (historians suggest Tex was a butch lesbian rather than trans) as another project destroyed by the EDI vampire. It was announced in 2018 with Scarlett Johansson (Black Widow, first female Marvel superhero to have her own movie, highest paid actress, you know a woman who can get multimillion dollar projects greenlit and get bums on seats) but she was forced out by the TRA mob who demanded a trans actor. It's been in development limbo ever since. In 2020 they said it was going to be a TV series with a trans actor and then tumbleweed...

And don't get me started on 'lived experience' - we have a £1m of national lottery money for a very deprived community near me but most of it is still sitting in the bank because the NL insists on 'lived experience' and will only consider people in the community as volunteers to run projects. These people are too busy working, getting their kids fed and struggling to make ends meet. They don't have the time or resources to run charity projects. But dozens of middle class retirees a few streets away with energy and skills are not allowed to step in and support them because 'lived experience'.

WinterDeWinter · 04/02/2023 14:17

This is such an interesting discussion. Lived experience clearly does not suffice on a practical level - nor on a psycho-organisational (?) level as a pp pointed out re the service users>staff pipeline.

OTOH there is a huge problem, I think, with middle class, often female because the sector is coded female, leadership in charities and ‘social enterprise-like’ organisations which I can’t help but feel has led us to this point - Twitter thread here: mobile.twitter.com/WTFoucault/status/1503477492291710988

i don’t know what the solution is.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 04/02/2023 15:07

That’s a really interesting thread and I am quite struck by this imagery, re: The Principal Boy in a Panto.

No one can stay The Principal Boy for life - it’s a role you can only play while you still look good in hotpants and a pair of tights.

The Dame, transitioned in from male parts at midlife gets to keep the Dame role for life but The Principal Boy is always replaced with a younger model.

Instead of patiently lining up and waiting for role to be vacated, the auditionees for Future Principal Boy have discovered they can speed up the entire process up.

They just call the EDI Vampire in and stand back and watch while it takes that boomer Karen bitch down. A bit of Vanish Oxy for what’s left of the bloodstained tights and Bob’s your gestational parent’s AMAB nonbinary sibling!

As for supreme confidence masking an empty void where skill and intellect is supposed to reside… That’s a self protective mechanism built into the private school system! Pupils are encouraged to cultivate an unshakable belief in their own abilities from day one so that when they graduate with just a handful of unremarkable grades no one will actually notice what a complete waste of money the school fees were! 😃

Mermaids getting eaten from the inside out
nilsmousehammer · 04/02/2023 15:26

Its an interesting thread.

As discussed here for years: women who have won their way to political seats have done so by winning at patriarchy and a lot of man-pleasing, because these are male led, male dominated groups who aren't going to let any woman through who is not obediently handmaidening. The couple of escapees such as Joanna Cherry pay heavily and publicly for spitting out the scold's bridle.

And then add all that to the issue of 'professional politicians', where kids go from school to university to spad to posts of power without ever encountering real life on the way outside of the ivory tower. And the issue that political representation is mostly done by those with the money, time and capacity to do so, which again means it is selecting from a small pool.

WinterDeWinter · 04/02/2023 19:40

Yes, and the truth is that charities and charity-adjacent orgs, especially small ones with founder-CEOs, pull from the same pool. And at a personality level, they are often people who have the kind of unquestioning self-belief and (perhaps) pole-climbing, even grifty tendencies to think, hey, I can make quite a good living out of this.

Sometimes that seems very fair, especially if they have previously been forced by circumstance to make it their unpaid, full time occupation. But sometimes you know that they are sharp-eyed and have seen the money that's swilling around waiting for a smooth, one-of-us, 'reasonable' figurehead to take it. Clubbability is still everything - it's a different kind of clubbability than it was but it's still there. Urbane, metropolitan, good small talk, won't scare the horses, understands corporate needs etc.

And - as in the Twitter thread - that class of people genuinely have no idea about how other people are made to live, think, feel; let alone about intersectionality (in the terms original intention, before the nightmare began). I really did meet women who wielded enormous power, whose decisions impacted women (including on this issue of gender ideology and their freedom to discuss it right here) whose lack of understanding of the lives of most middle class women, let alone working class women, was genuinely jaw-droppingly, absent. Nothing there.

So I'm often really uncomfortable on threads which don't acknowledge that underpinning the 'victim pyramid' is (still, despite all the horror) a serious analysis of the different axes of structural oppression. I'm wanging on but basically what I'm trying to say is, don't let's let our rage at how the language of equality activism has been perverted and co-opted make us forget that there actually is a fuck of a lot that needs changing. We should be tolerant of mistakes that those who have had no class induction into leadership make while they are learning to lead (though obviously not of middle-class brats who have just moved their entitlement bracket a little to the left Grin, especially misogynist middle class brats.)

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 04/02/2023 21:36

Real time example of an attempted purity spiral in action on this thread now!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4735347-brendan-oneill-spiked?page=6&reply=123650475

WinterDeWinter · 04/02/2023 21:58

Why don't you respond to my post on here like a big girl, Nicola. PS That wine is making you rather red in the face.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 04/02/2023 22:06

WinterDeWinter · 04/02/2023 21:58

Why don't you respond to my post on here like a big girl, Nicola. PS That wine is making you rather red in the face.

Because it’s a load of contradictory nonsense.

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