Page 21 | Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

dunBle · 2023-01-30T19:36:36+00:00

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

CaveMum · 01/02/2023 13:51

Yes, MN doesn’t like us showing people how to bypass paywalls!

Tricyrtis2022 · 01/02/2023 13:57

Here you go, hopefully you can find an archived copy. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/31/sturgeons-gender-ideology-imploding-real-time/

ResisterRex · 01/02/2023 14:04

Also you can search in Twitter for an article. Often it'll be posted in an accessible way

scratchedbymycat · 01/02/2023 14:07

Tricyrtis2022 · 01/02/2023 13:57

Here you go, hopefully you can find an archived copy. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/31/sturgeons-gender-ideology-imploding-real-time/

Excellent article. Has Isla Bryson inculcated bravery in journalists?

scratchedbymycat · 01/02/2023 14:13

The thing about Sturgeon is she has managed to alienate both women and the radical pro self-id folk. I can't gauge though how damaging it will be.

turbonerd · 01/02/2023 14:25

pattihews · 31/01/2023 11:23

So... there were more than 70,000 cases of rape reported to the police in 2021-2. Around 2,500 men were found guilty and jailed. Which means that there are thousands of men (with the number apparently growing year on year) walking around who have raped / sexually assaulted women but the case didn't proceed to court for whatever reason. And those are only the reported rapes.

Not only do we need to worry about the fact that those men are able to enter women's DV shelters, use rape crisis centres, enter women's loos and changing rooms but you're also suggesting that if they're convicted of fraud or burglary it would be perfectly safe to put them in prison with women.

Barking. Utterly barking.

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I agree @pattihews
It is a complete fallacy to say that most men do not commit (sexual) crimes.
Is it just one or two extremely busy ones doing all the assaulting and raping then?

No, sadly a much larger amount of men commit crimes than are brought to court, and only a fraction of those are actually found guilty.

So not even Dave who only got banged up for tax fraud may share the women’s facilities. Not in jail, not in hospital, not in the leisure centre or in the shops/pubs/anywhere.

turbonerd · 01/02/2023 14:32

MidsomerMurmurs · 31/01/2023 21:08

Well they did a risk assessment and found there was no risk TO HIM from being sent to Cornton Vale. That’s a pretty important detail about the much-mentioned “risk assessments” that SPS have been carrying out.

The risk to women prisoners? Not really assessed was it?

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And this.
the risk assessment is about what the risk might be to THE MAN from the other prisoners.

The risk to A MAN from female prisoners is very low.

Darkskybrightmind · 01/02/2023 14:40

I am now convinced NS believes what she is saying. She has only been talking to gender ideologues and she believes, uncritically and without evidence, what they have told her. Including that the people opposing gender ideology are bad, bad people who can have a whole load of labels thrown at them.

I genuinely think she’s allowed herself to be indoctrinated and believes all that. It’s easy to happen if you only listen to one side, and she has.

Signalbox · 01/02/2023 14:49

"It is a complete fallacy to say that most men do not commit (sexual) crimes.
Is it just one or two extremely busy ones doing all the assaulting and raping then?"

I can imagine it could easily be a very low percentage of men doing most of the assaulting and raping. A man who gets his kicks from groping women in bars can probably carry out 100s of assaults without ever even getting reported because women don't bother to report such incidents. A man masturbating at women on trains (which happened to me and then another woman on the same train and probably other women on the same night further up the line) will probably be doing that every week affecting multiple women never getting caught because the CCTV is too crap to ID him or because women do not bother to report it. Look at the likes of John Worboys or Delroy Grant who get away with hundreds of rapes before they are caught. 100s of women affected by one man.

Goldpaw · 01/02/2023 14:57

Darkskybrightmind · 01/02/2023 14:40

I am now convinced NS believes what she is saying. She has only been talking to gender ideologues and she believes, uncritically and without evidence, what they have told her. Including that the people opposing gender ideology are bad, bad people who can have a whole load of labels thrown at them.

I genuinely think she’s allowed herself to be indoctrinated and believes all that. It’s easy to happen if you only listen to one side, and she has.

She surrounds herself with her own inner circle of trusted fellow politicians, so only listening to one side sounds about right for her.

Massive mistake to not listen to those who disagree with you.

nilsmousehammer · 01/02/2023 15:43

"It is a complete fallacy to say that most men do not commit (sexual) crimes.
Is it just one or two extremely busy ones doing all the assaulting and raping then?"

Wouldn't it be helpful to identify that one or two and get them sorted out? And at the same time locate this poor fully transitioned, gentle and harmless but dishonest, unicorn accountant everyone keeps referring to as rightly placed in the women's estate. Those three together could be very helpful to working this mess out. Particularly if any of them know anything about actual risk assessment.

FigRollsAlly · 01/02/2023 15:50

I just can’t believe that someone as canny as NS would have been so taken in by all the gender stuff. Yes, maybe many of us know clever people who have been taken in because they only read the Guardian etc but NS has had plenty of heart felt evidence presented to her that she has just dismissed. The most charitable explanation I can see is that she feels both sides of the argument had merit and went for the one that furthered her cause. A bit like Boris and Brexit.

Emotionalsupportviper · 01/02/2023 15:52

nilsmousehammer · 01/02/2023 15:43

"It is a complete fallacy to say that most men do not commit (sexual) crimes.
Is it just one or two extremely busy ones doing all the assaulting and raping then?"

Wouldn't it be helpful to identify that one or two and get them sorted out? And at the same time locate this poor fully transitioned, gentle and harmless but dishonest, unicorn accountant everyone keeps referring to as rightly placed in the women's estate. Those three together could be very helpful to working this mess out. Particularly if any of them know anything about actual risk assessment.

locate this poor fully transitioned, gentle and harmless but dishonest, unicorn accountant everyone keeps referring to as rightly placed in the women's estate. Those three together could be very helpful to working this mess out. Particularly if any of them know anything about actual risk assessment.

Perhaps the gentle unicorn accountant could identify as an actuary 😁

pattihews · 01/02/2023 16:05

scratchedbymycat · 01/02/2023 14:07

Excellent article. Has Isla Bryson inculcated bravery in journalists?

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No, the Telegraph and the Times have been exposing this, in well-reported detail, for years. And the Daily Mail. I presume you usually get your news from the Guardian or the BBC.

It's an uncomfortable fact that all those of us on the left have had to face. There are hundreds of thousands of disillusioned Guardian readers who've turned to the Times and the Telegraph. I'm one of them. We may not like the politics but their reporting on gender identity issues has been excellent. And the Spectator got it right too. The New Statesman picked the wrong side.

SinnerBoy · 01/02/2023 16:21

pattihews · Today 16:05

It's an uncomfortable fact that all those of us on the left have had to face. There are hundreds of thousands of disillusioned Guardian readers who've turned to the Times and the Telegraph. I'm one of them. We may not like the politics but their reporting on gender identity issues has been excellent.

I was a daily reader of the Guardian, well, a couple of times a week, after my daughter was born. I'd been a reader since my early 20s.

In the last few years, I've come to loathe much of it. I will read some articles online, but I'm blowed if I'm paying for it.

At least the Observer has been publishing some fairly sensible matter, on this issue.

justasking111 · 01/02/2023 16:28

Now my dad taught me to read everything, left, right, newspapers he said you need this for balance which is usually somewhere in the middle.

It was dad that took me to the library every week and introduced me to adult authors, I wasn't allowed to borrow adult fiction so he would for me.

I thrived on a diet of

Erle Stanley Gardner
Dashiel Hammet
Ian Fleming
Graham Greene
Raymond Chandler
Thorne Smith
Arthur Ransome
Isaac Asimov and many other sci fi authors.
Charles Dickens

I grew up with a strong sense of right and wrong. At 18 first job 1974 middle aged boss who hit on young girls like us. I went straight to the chairman's secretary saying I wanted to see him because.........
I was sacked. My young self couldn't believe it.

Maybe I should have read Barbara Cartland 🤣

So I'm saying read it all,. . If only to find out what everyone is up to . I've read the Jewish chronicle, watched Al Jazeera, and glean.

What shocked me was the lack of coverage in Scotland of the shenanigans the government were pulling with their own people. It was as if there were injunctions

Boiledbeetle · 01/02/2023 16:31

nilsmousehammer · 01/02/2023 15:43

"It is a complete fallacy to say that most men do not commit (sexual) crimes.
Is it just one or two extremely busy ones doing all the assaulting and raping then?"

Wouldn't it be helpful to identify that one or two and get them sorted out? And at the same time locate this poor fully transitioned, gentle and harmless but dishonest, unicorn accountant everyone keeps referring to as rightly placed in the women's estate. Those three together could be very helpful to working this mess out. Particularly if any of them know anything about actual risk assessment.

Because someone who has just swindled his clients out of £3000000 is going to be so well standing and full of moral fortitude! Of course he'll behave himself!

FFS why won't they see what they are saying!

funnelfan · 01/02/2023 16:38

Goldpaw · 01/02/2023 14:57

She surrounds herself with her own inner circle of trusted fellow politicians, so only listening to one side sounds about right for her.

Massive mistake to not listen to those who disagree with you.

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Especially as a good politician will have someone look at a proposed policy from the point of view of the opposition, do a thorough analysis and prepare counter points to any objections that would come up. The best politicians would use the analysis to improve the policy so it worked better for everyone, but it seems like it’s been a very long time since that happened.

Anyways, the SNP counter points seem to consist of calling their opponents racist, misogynist homophobes, so I suspect the policy analysis was not very thorough.

nilsmousehammer · 01/02/2023 16:38

Boiledbeetle · 01/02/2023 16:31

Because someone who has just swindled his clients out of £3000000 is going to be so well standing and full of moral fortitude! Of course he'll behave himself!

FFS why won't they see what they are saying!

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Exactly. Any declaration they make will absolutely be honest.

How many sex offenders are actually successfully prosecuted again, and how many go on floating around doing their thing because the law doesn't work for women?

Boiledbeetle · 01/02/2023 16:42

nilsmousehammer · 01/02/2023 16:38

Exactly. Any declaration they make will absolutely be honest.

How many sex offenders are actually successfully prosecuted again, and how many go on floating around doing their thing because the law doesn't work for women?

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And most people who will break one law will quite happily break many more.

It's fairly easy to understand

NO MALE MEN IN THE FEMALE WOMEN'S PRISON ESTATE

LexMitior · 01/02/2023 16:52

I don't think anyone should be surprised- the SNP are nationalist. That makes them narrow minded on the tin.

Not listening to others is built in. No debate is built in.

They were natural adopters of this stuff, and still will be when it's over. They seem pretty authoritarian.

Throw off your English chains, we've got one made in Scotland for you.

I hope it makes people look at everything they do with a lot more care. Bunch of third raters

Tricyrtis2022 · 01/02/2023 17:03

@justasking111, I was also taught to read widely and read the Guardian and Times from about the age of 12. As an adult I spent some time working for an industrial news aggregator where we had to read all the papers every day to find the info clients wanted and then write up short reports. We'd start with the WSJ and move on from there to every daily published. The job drove me crazy and I didn't last long, but I got a pretty good grounding in which papers were worth reading. The Times was always excellent for wide coverage and still is. I may not like all it says, but it does at least cover the stories. I note that the Guardian report very little on FWR and, unless something has changed recently, the Independent no longer even bother reporting anything on it at all.

turbonerd · 01/02/2023 17:29

Signalbox · 01/02/2023 14:49

"It is a complete fallacy to say that most men do not commit (sexual) crimes.
Is it just one or two extremely busy ones doing all the assaulting and raping then?"

I can imagine it could easily be a very low percentage of men doing most of the assaulting and raping. A man who gets his kicks from groping women in bars can probably carry out 100s of assaults without ever even getting reported because women don't bother to report such incidents. A man masturbating at women on trains (which happened to me and then another woman on the same train and probably other women on the same night further up the line) will probably be doing that every week affecting multiple women never getting caught because the CCTV is too crap to ID him or because women do not bother to report it. Look at the likes of John Worboys or Delroy Grant who get away with hundreds of rapes before they are caught. 100s of women affected by one man.

Maybe, I would hope so.
But reading the relationship board has got me wondering.

Though I just realise I have said «most men» when what I was thinking was «many men» - more than just a tiny nr

borntobequiet · 01/02/2023 17:46

A bit like Boris and Brexit.

I can only assume that comment to be made tongue in cheek.

Goldpaw · 01/02/2023 17:48

FigRollsAlly · 01/02/2023 15:50

I just can’t believe that someone as canny as NS would have been so taken in by all the gender stuff. Yes, maybe many of us know clever people who have been taken in because they only read the Guardian etc but NS has had plenty of heart felt evidence presented to her that she has just dismissed. The most charitable explanation I can see is that she feels both sides of the argument had merit and went for the one that furthered her cause. A bit like Boris and Brexit.

The problem she has which I mentioned upthread is that she's chosen to have a few trusted people around her, which I can understand on one level, politics being cut throat and mercenary at the best of times!

However it's led her down this particular blind alley.

She also has misjudged things in the past. So I think she's generally canny, but not always.