'...the public are struggling to understand how a rapist can be put into a female prison'

[ArabellaScott]

Sue Webber, MSP, on BBC Debate night.

Discussion of GRR from 18 minutes in.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001hl5b/debate-night-series-4-25012023

And what about the dude Katie who attempted to rape a 10 year girl and was moved out off polmont to Cornton vale.

what about him

Perhaps a journalist might ask Nicola about that too?

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23194623.fm-no-evidence-men-will-abuse-gender-recognition-reforms/

"Nicola Sturgeon has insisted there is "no evidence" to suggest that men will abuse the simplified system for obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) to target women"

YOU TOLD US THIS OVER AND FUCKING OVER. YOU LYING LIAR.

<cough>. Sorry for shouting.

It's the lies. They rile me.

I have children about Uni age, I have watched them accept this with very little fight, however when people they know people whom swap MTF they have been vocal in saying that women do not dress like they are going to a party to pop to the shops.
That wearing leggings that show of your sex is not the nor and a long jumper or t shirt is needed. to tone down the OTT make up.
I now wonder how long it will be before they see that their rights are slowly being eroded. I have now seen people turning against constant sexual adventures and I wonder if Celibacy will become normal as it is the last rebellion against the sexual advances of the last 20 years.

Actually, by Sturgeon’s own reasoning it is worse: she is moving a woman into a men’s jail.

I wonder why Sturgeon says he will not be imprisoned in Cornton Vale prison given that "trans women are women", and 'people are who they say they are'?

You are correct, offenders can not cross the border to live or serve a custodial .

Different legal systems. So Scottish offender are housed in Scottish prisons and dealt with by Scottish Probation with licences to be adhered to in Scotland.

England and Wales have their own system like the above.

Even after a custodial is served a Welsh Offender can't move to Scotland if on licence and vice versa, for example.

And her care, unless I missed it, in not using pronouns or sex markers to discuss this man

"Nicola Sturgeon has insisted there is "no evidence" to suggest that men will abuse the simplified system for obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) to target women"

I wonder if she also leaves her house unlocked and the door wide open every time she's away - as presumably there's the similar amount of 'no evidence' that there are any opportunistic thieves out there.

The argument I really hate is, 'this is a rare case/this is just one extreme instance/this is an exceptional case.' Violent men, sex offenders, incels, MRAs, anti-feminists, misogynists and gleeful troublemakers are not rarities, and now they have been handed the ultimate way to make life a misery for women. It only takes ONE man to completely change the environment of a women-only prison, hostel, gym, college, etc., for all the women present. It only takes one rapist taxi driver to make all women have that thought take up mindspace when they should be enjoying a night out. It only takes one man to rape a woman in a public park to make all the women who use that park think differently about it forever. One male rapist in a prison completely alters and inhibits all the women in that prison.

It's really become a talking point. It's letting your Joe Public see the light!

With this and Rosie maybe Labour will be able to see where the votes are!!

Edinburgh prison has a woman’s wing, he will probably end up there.

James Morton of the Scottish Trans Alliance, who was involved in writing the trans policy for Scottish prisons, said this in 2018.

"We strategized that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise."

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/opaque-and-overdue-scottish-prison-service-trans-prisoner-policy-review

This won't sway true TWAW believers; we've already heard them say they are willing to 'die on rapist hill'.

What I'm hoping is that any very naive or deluded supporters of genderism will start to question some of their ideas.

Is any man who says he's a woman a transwoman?

Is he then entitled to women's spaces?

How do we tell the difference?

In my very simplified black and white view.

Is any man who says he's a woman a transwoman? Yes, a transwoman not a woman

Is he then entitled to women's space? No, sex is a protected characteristic under the equality act, seperate to gender identity.

How do we tell the difference? We can't, until something goes wrong, which is why in my opinion robust safeguarding and risk needs to be at the centre of it all. Never ever should safeguarding and risk be overthrown by "feelings" . We should never have to have a "lessons will be learnt" scenario. Women are not test subjects.

Yes, because anything else is 'erasing their existence' which translates as 'not swearing to unquestioningly uphold to the new religion's main tenet, TWAW'.

This is why a GC person says 'I have safeguarding concerns' and an MP screams back 'YOU HARE A HATEFUL TRANSPHOBE' .

It's also why ST news interviewed Amber Roberts for comment, and used the clip of them saying the Isla Bryson situation 'shouldn't be used to target trans people'. The media are complicit in this constant reframing of safeguarding concerns as 'targeting' trans people.

It happens all the time.

What I'm hoping is that any very naive or deluded supporters of genderism will start to question some of their ideas.

You can see that happening here on the boards, the threads that have escaped into AIBU I think have helped so much. There's more names appearing within this board that seem genuinely shocked at what they've not seen, not realised.

And that photo is really spelling out the problem better than any Breakfast TV discussions/newspaper articles etc.
The public really are seeing the emperor in all his glory.

It's also why ST news interviewed Amber Roberts for comment, and used the clip of them saying the Isla Bryson situation 'shouldn't be used to target trans people'. The media are complicit in this constant reframing of safeguarding concerns as 'targeting' trans people.

Is this person a 'trans person'? If so, it shows that some trans people are dangerous rapists and predators. If not, it shows that some men will pretend to be trans in order to access vulnerable women.

I haven't read the thread so maybe this point has already been made, but it bears repetition. NS and all involved in getting this scumbag out of Cornton Vale and into a male prison are being massively hypocritical.

We have all been told repeatedly, for years and years, that it's acceptance without exception. No debate. There should be no medical gatekeeping, no expectation that anyone will change their body to match their gender identity, no need for any changes at all to gender expression if the individual doesn't want to make them. Every indidividual knows their own gender identity, and it's bigoted to question what they say about it. Nobody would lie about this, it's just too easy to be a sexual predator without going to all this trouble.

And now we see a convicted male sexual predator who has bought a wig, a lipstick and a pair of leggings, which is more effort than many other of the convicted TW have made, and people are falling over themselves to say 'Not that one! It's obvious in this case that the convicted rapist is trying it on!'

What's so different about this one? Why are all these public figures questioning Isla's sincerity but waving all the confused teenagers and middle-aged cross-dressers right through?

And why is a possibly insincere male rapist in a women's prison an obviously awful, unacceptable thing for the women in there - but a sincere male rapist is fine?

What is the difference to the experience to those women?

Is a woman being assaulted or raped going to be remotely interested in how sincere her rapist feels in that moment in time?

The sincerity of this male rapist's transness is irrelevant. The issue is that a male sex offender should never be in a women's prison.

And Nicola is now going to have to explain why those male sex offenders are happily cracking on in Scots women's prisons but the answer to this particular one is no, because it's escaped into the press.

So get out all the histories and photos of those other male offenders in the female estate and let's see this through properly Nicola. Either the law works as you said it does, or it does not. It can't work for some and not others.

Well well well. This is a surprise. Why is this one more of a problem than the others we have been talking about for years? What about the other MSPs who voted down the amendments while the awful self ID bill was being pushed through? I predict / hope for resignations…

But the BBC is still calling him she / her. Unbelievable

She can absolutely piss of with hiding behind 'risk assessment '.

Well okay, if that's the way to do it, how are women's hostels, the 17 year old on the reception of the gym, the lifeguard, the student on the changing rooms at m&s supposed to do the same, without access to the level of information the Scottish prison service has?

Do we accept Isla is only a danger to women within the context of a prison but will be miraculously safe on release?

The whole point everyone has been shouting is that self ID strips away the ability, power, confidence of anyone to challenge men entering women's spaces.

And if we accept that TWAW except when we say so then there must be criteria. Except there are no criteria in the bill.... and it's hardly like we ask to see birth certificates to let people into most women's spaces anyway. We use our judgement but we can no longer trust that because they simply need to utter the four magic words 'i am a woman ' and that's that, you are now in the wrong.

This has never been about the bloody bits of paper (although that is also nonsense) but the shift of power to the benefit of those who will merrily abuse it.