What gender heresy caused you to be thrown out of Facebook groups?

[KatMcBundleFace]

Standing up to gender wang has been my downfall on several Facebook groups.

The Admin of a 745,000 strong group I recently joined, decided to call JK Rowling a "sadistic piece of shit, terf". He then banned posts about Harry Potter, because the group needs to be "safe space".
He turned off comments as they were not going his way. He then booted out people for just laugh reacting, me included.

Imagine if these pampered children actually have to deal with anyone genuinely sadistic.

I've also been thrown out of a wild camping group for backing up someone who said it was dehumanising to call women "period havers". The admins bullied that person and called him fat. Yup, literally that playground.

My biggest win was getting thrown out of a group run by Facebook itself. They are obviously going for Stonewall points and are training group admins in Gender ideology. There was a post about not using "gendered language". The example given was something like its bad to say "Hi Girls", in a group for women, as not all women identify as women, or some toss. Of cause the replies were a mess. From virtue signaling gone wrong eg the woman that went "we use guys to be inclusive " (she got jumped on), to people saying it was bollocks, to a couple of enbies saying that they are LITERALLY VIOLATED when they have to see terrible things like "ladies and gentlemen". The enbies then decided that everyone who disagreed with them should be booted out because its now an unsafe space.
I called that behaviour bullying. And with that I got banned by Facebook staff.

I must admit I stopped managing my group after that. It was very big and a lot of work. It generated a lot of interactions for Facebook, plus wider media coverage. I was a volunteer, for a horrible corporate business.
Facebook sells data and undermines democracy, but at least the enbies feel seen.

Anyway, has anyone else experienced this in Facebook groups?

I got booted off a Radio 4 FB group for asking for evidence of how the CoE had persecuted LGBTQ for centuries, or some other bold claim. I don’t doubt that the LGB have been excluded and badly treated, possibly even persecuted, I don’t know, but the TQ?
it was swift. Didn’t even realise it hadn’t happened. There were definitely people agreeing with me before I got the boot - i wonder whether they got kicked off too.

I only skimmed it but I thought it was very fair (STP's responses anyway).

From the books and what I've read of STP, I think the increasing social awareness of trans identities and crossover with sci-fi, goth/steampunk and other fantasy fandoms (which is a whole new topic itself and might turn up in the massive post about all this I may someday have time to write) put trans people on his radar in a sympathetic way, and because anything on his radar ended up in Discworld I think STP did introduce trans-allegory aspects to characters.

But even if he didn't, it's totally ok for anyone to read a character that way if it resonates for them.

But it's STP. No character is just one thing. He says himself he would never write a character to fit an issue.

So I welcome people reading characters as trans even if I personally think for some characters the character or story is lesser for it. I just don't accept being told that's the only way they can be read.

I also think if STP had survived his ideas of trans identity and acceptance would have evolved as the whole situation has evolved. I don't think he'd be 100%, no exception TWAW and I'm certain he'd reject no debate and "righteous" abuse of people deemed the wrong side of history.

But I don't think he'd have been as absolutely GC as some might want. I think his philosophy tended towards "don't treat people as things, don't assume you know what's right for other people, accept most people are trying to do the right thing but limited by their own circumstances and the immediate concerns of getting by, and be flexible and compassionate to their failings, but eventually you may have to stand up against someone you believe to be wrong and when you do, do it openly, honestly and for reasons you believe are good".

What I am pretty sure about is that whatever his own views he'd have shown us some wry and incisive insights in the Discworld mirror.

Oh, his responses were fine (if superficial) - it was the poor, closed questions and the absolutely awful surrounding text (that praised his layers but clearly had missed most of them) that I objected to. And the interview methodology.

The STP discussion made me return to mentally comparing and contrasting the way the trans thing is treated in the Orville compared with Star Trek Discovery. tO is more honest in my opinion- probably a subject for the womens rights general conversations thread rather than here. Later.

My reoccurring, intrusive thought is that STP had a lot to say about the presumption that being a member of a marginalised/minority group made you a saint.

Even in those brief answers, he doesn't thoughtlessly praise the sci-fi and fantasy crowd for unboundaried tolerance and acceptance, because he didn't think such a thing was praiseworthy. He specifically referenced that people's behaviour mattered, i.e. whether someone was a jerk was more important than whether they were gay or transgendered. I don't think he would have gone back on that, and that's the salient point in this debate. We are apparently morally obliged to ignore people being jerks (to say it mildly!) if they say they are trans. The term we use for this phenomenon is the creation of a new Sacred Caste, but STP recognised it under any name.

Quote from Jingo, by STP

Be generous, Sir Samuel. TRULY treat all men equally. Allow Klatchians the right to be scheming bastards, hmm?

Bizarre. You'd think people at Planned Parenthood would know this. Also NARAL as abortion is what they are campaigning for. Nuts.

What an entitled bastard to lose someone their job because they don't like who she follows on Twitter. B-all to do with the person with a prostate called Jessica Blank.

Most American feminist organisations have erased the idea that there is some actual name for female people, and now advocate discussing reproductive rights as a problem for 'people' or for 'pregnancy-capable people', as saying 'women and girls' excludes the 0.016 percent or whatever of abortions performed on someone who does not identify as a woman.

So women's rights organisations in the US now prioritise those female people who have at least tried to transition upwards in the societal power hierarchies. It's interesting.

My very first sightings of the erasure of anything female came from US reproductive rights sites, fifteen or so years ago.

Now almost all those sites are captured like ACLU and Amnesty, though even more explicitly so.

I recommend that you and Sinnerboy both look into M☆ Blank's twitter posting history.

Blank's social media is much dodgier than a couple of unfashionable follows. But this is someone that Limited Run Games chose to take commands from.

twitter.com/Dataracer117/status/1612213724018012160

Chose to take commands, eh?

Ah, sorry - I was distracted, I thought you meant the woman sacked!

Apologies!

Radio4 It's Not Just For the Middle Aged v2.0

Nice tolerant group which was started after a massive bust up on the original page.

To answer a previous poster - I've been booted from 2 FB pages and 1 Messenger chat group , all by women so far. But I don't think there's a sex divide in trans activism. Sometimes young guys are real 'try hards' because they want brownie points from libfem women.

No worries.

I cannot fathom it. They sacked an employee for looking forward to Hogwarts Legacy and who she was following. Meanwhile, the complainant's actual posts are a cesspit.

They should have told him to fuck off, or just ignored him.

They should have told him to fuck off, or just ignored him.

As the woman sack said, she understood that they didn't want a pile on my zealots, sadly.

Thanks Abhannmore. I'm not surprised that some of the gatekeepers online are women. I've seen a few very persistent female trolls as well as the school prefect enforcer types. My theory is that it's a way for a person who might be physically unable to get involved in conflict to try to exercise power over others.

A Graunista breaks ranks.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/28/forget-andrew-tate-what-about-the-host-of-misogynists-in-labours-ranks

It's on the Observer, not the Graun, though. I don't think the Graun has allowed that kind of thing on its pages yet, has it?

I see em as the same thing, I guess

They've been very different on this issue for some time. Like the Mail and Mail on Sunday were on Brexit.

I've been a member of a geeky Facebook group for over a decade but am seriously thinking of leaving for two main reasons- one being the handmaiden-y fawning over a male who does gender switched costumes, but with so many bizarrely staged photos that it's obvious that he's not just there to proudly show off his sewing skills

if I’m not on the same one, then I’m seeing something similar on one that I’m on.

it has lots of we‘re SO kind and wholesome vibes, and everyone MUST BE NICE. Except they do seem to allow DIE TERF SCUM posts too. So wholesome. Much nice.

If it's cake adjacent and has many claims to be 'the nicest corner of the internet', then yes.

It wasn’t me because I’m a coward when it comes to speaking up. A group of middle
aged people set up a group relating to a 90s music scene. Someone was kicked out for raising a counter point regarding tras protesting and was basically binned and then slagged off by senior members while all the nodding dogs agreed. I so wanted to speak out but they weren’t for listening to reason so I’d only have alienated myself among people I’ve been friends with for 30+ years.

Both people involved had made valid points on both sides of the debate but the only comments being allowed to remain were those that supported the white straight male being a trans ally. The woman standing up for womens rights (not as far as I could see anti-trans) was still yeeted.

i don’t always 100% agree with everything the GC side say and sometimes there are things I agree that the tras say but I am not allowed to see the shades of grey in this topic, ironic given I’m the autistic one.

I’ve been chucked out of two Facebook groups.

One a large fashion/style group which I really liked and made me happy during lockdown. I was ridiculously upset by it at the time, simply because those social links were important when life had gone to shit. Anyway, my crime: an admin was slagging off the looks of a female politician. Really vicious personal stuff, not just ‘crap taste in shoes’ type comments. Anyway, someone replied along the lines of ‘maybe we should back off the personal comments’ and I replied ‘couldn’t agree more’. That was it, banned for challenging an admin.

Second was a support group for women who had had breast surgeries go wrong. There was a lot of sharing not only photos but emotional stuff and there was lots of practical advice re legal support, surgeons who specialised in corrective work etc. Then suddenly inclusive was added to the title, men started to join, members scrabbled to delete photos. I raised the ‘safe space’ question and boom, out you go.

Not banned but I’ve had some pretty decent arguments on New Zealand Reddit of all places about the term ‘pregnant person’ being used to cover all pregnant females not just those who are trans or non binary. Apparent it’s okay to offend women but trans feeling must be protected at all costs.

I don’t hate trans people (I’m bisexual myself) but hate how the radical trans minority has hijacked the LBTQI movememt.