Sunday Morning Live BBC TOMORROW 10:30; Scottish GRA Reform, no female lawyers on panel

[MrsMidClegs]

Sunday Morning Live on BBC One tomorrow will include a debate about the legal implications of the Scottish GRA reform.

WRN was asked to send a speaker, we were ready to do this but then they said she was not needed.

We know that Robin Moira White is speaking.

The format of the programme is interactive, and viewer texts, phone messages etc are read out to contribute to the debate. Please tune in, send messages and ensure that the voices of women are heard, but this will be too late, the BBC is not conforming to its remit of impartiality if it refuses to interview someone of the protected class this Bill will demolish.

Do you think they said last night, "shhhiiiiit. We can do it but so quickly that hopefully we can gloss over the whole thing..."

It does seem that way.

Noticed this. Trans people cannot be questioned because you are trans if you say you are. That's it.

Ella Whelan was excellent.

Apparently, RMW was told to bundle up well against the cold and it all went downhill from there...

You know what's going to happen if you make bundle jokes, don't you?

Chaz

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude 🤣

@Ereshkigalangcleg i think they honestly thought, "we can't NOT do it now we said we would. But I don't want to do it, do you? Look how many people have really excellent valid and articulate objections but they're not in line with the scary people who will send death threats? How can we do this? Just speak really fast, don't let any of them really talk much at all and then wrap it up! And although we asked everyone for their opinion and said they could call in during the show, do not, whatever you do, actually read any of it out!"

And thanks for your comment in the aibu thread @Ereshkigalangcleg I couldn't reply.

That ridiculous "white women felt unsafe around black men" sounded like the last resort of a woman who didn't have any convincing arguments.

And Ellie, the male the president of the Scottish NUS arguing that people such as Ellie are amongst the most marginalised. There have been 7 female people and 25 male people in that position since 1971. Yet the current male person who identifies as transgender is one of the most marginalised.

Utter infuriating nonsense.

You're welcome Movern , it was an important perspective to share.

I think there has to be 5 bundle jokes made in front of a mirror.

According to Gomersall the only point of a GRC is to change your birth certificate and ensure that the legal fiction is also recorded on marriage and death certificates.

it’s not very often you have to show your birth certificate — but it does have a big impact on some of those really important life moments. If I were to get married, I need to know I’d be recorded as a wife on my marriage certificate. When I die, it’s important that I’m recorded as I lived — as a woman. The only way for me to guarantee that my wedding day is as special as it should be, or to ensure dignity in death, is by obtaining a GRC.

If Gomersall ever gets married they is going to be very disappointed that it doesn't say 'wife' anywhere on the certificate.

And why is it so important to be recorded as the opposite sex to that which they actually are, after they are dead, on a certificate they will never see?

They seem to be making a good case for a GRC being so completely pointless that we might as well scrap the GRA.

Unfortunately, the present gender recognition process is unfit for purpose. It requires a hefty amount of evidence to be submitted to a panel of experts — people who have medical or legal qualifications but who will never actually meet me — that gets to decide whether I’m a man or a woman.

A 'hefty amount of evidence' which consists of a couple of letters from doctors and a few utility bills. And nobody is deciding whether someone is a man or a woman. All they do is decide whether the correct documents have been submitted. A bit like when you apply for a passport.

I think there has to be 5 bundle jokes made in front of a mirror

You're going to be the death of me

I think there has to be 5 bundle jokes made in front of a mirror.

So a bundle of bundle jokes then!

Does anyone else imagine the shout of bundle in their head and have visions of loads of kids jumping on each other every time bundle is mentioned?

I'd never seen that show before, not being a daytime TV watcher. I won't bother with it again.

They took huge subjects - women's rights, the Nazi persecution of the Jews, death - and galloped through each of them.

Typical BBC really.

🤣 I imagine bundles of wool

Does anyone else imagine the shout of bundle in their head and have visions of loads of kids jumping on each other every time bundle is mentioned?

Yes, middle school fights! Buuuuundle!

That poll above is meaningless and so easily confused - whether deliberately obscured or not.

It doesn't actually say 'transwomen' or 'transmen' - which have largely-accepted meanings these days - but 'transgender women' and 'transgender men', which could be very open to interpretation, especially as so many people still don't really understand the terminologies and implications.

Is a 'transgender woman' a woman who is transgender (i.e. identifies as a man) or a man who is transgender (i.e. identifies as a woman)? Even if an individual knows 100%, how can they know that the person they are communicating their opinion to is working on the same established definitions?

What they're really asking is "Do you think that somebody who is either a natal male or a natal female and who now identifies as the opposite is either the same as they biologically are or the opposite? You may not seek clarification or qualify your answer - you are only allowed to say 'Yes' or 'No.'" Clear as mud.

It's really odd to watch a magazine programme like that after watching YouTube videos where one subject is discussed in detail for an hour or more.

Yea exactly. When I was canvassing people to complete the GRA consultation, a lot of people thought transwoman meant a woman who identified as a man. And my experience wasn't uncommon.

This survey is a lot clearer

I'd never seen that show before, not being a daytime TV watcher. I won't bother with it again.

They took huge subjects - women's rights, the Nazi persecution of the Jews, death - and galloped through each of them.

I watch it regularly, and they always seem to do that. They'll either have two or three massive, far-reaching topics to try (unsuccessfully) to cover in one show; or otherwise, they'll have nothing but niche uncontroversial 'community' topics - people doing cultural/religious dances, making special food for festivals etc. - and really struggle to stretch them out to fill the show.

It's actually quite funny watching them waken up.

DH - I don't see why you can't just give them a certificate

ME - It changes their birth certificate.

DH - How can it change their birth certificate. That just doesn't make sense.

He's wakening up a bit more now that it's more mainstream.

But still on the mainstream the presenters are not doing their job, but the strong woman they get on are. That's why there is so much anger against women this week.

And they switched off comments after that

EasterIsland · Today 10:31

www.moreincommon.org.uk/our-work/research/britons-and-gender-identity/

They had this very reasonable thing to say:

Most of the public (57 per cent) think that trans women should not be allowed to compete in women-only sporting events (with 19 per cent who think they should be allowed). Focus groups found that the public see this as an issue of a level-playing field and the physical advantages that men have in some sports, but also looked for opportunities for trans people to compete in sports.

Yet the TRA side repeatedly claim that they're hounded out of sports.

I’d also note that Marge used a graphic from the 2020 YouGov poll.

The 2022 poll won’t offer Marge quite such a warm glow.

yougov.co.uk/topics/society/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

There has been an erosion in support for trans rights since 2018

A new YouGov study, the third, and most expansive, in a series spanning back to 2018, shows evidence of an overall gradual erosion in support towards transgender rights. In some areas the shift is very pronounced.

Its almost like people are waking up.