Sunday Morning Live BBC TOMORROW 10:30; Scottish GRA Reform, no female lawyers on panel

[MrsMidClegs]

Sunday Morning Live on BBC One tomorrow will include a debate about the legal implications of the Scottish GRA reform.

WRN was asked to send a speaker, we were ready to do this but then they said she was not needed.

We know that Robin Moira White is speaking.

The format of the programme is interactive, and viewer texts, phone messages etc are read out to contribute to the debate. Please tune in, send messages and ensure that the voices of women are heard, but this will be too late, the BBC is not conforming to its remit of impartiality if it refuses to interview someone of the protected class this Bill will demolish.

I'm assuming that MPie means women, when saying women because we all tend to use language accurately unless we make huge efforts to lie.

I keep raising this issue with women I know who aren't following the politics of it. They nearly all say that they think that people should be able to wear what they want, be called what they want, not be discriminated against regarding jobs/housing. But they think third spaces should be provided for toilets/changing/hospital wards.

That's the reality of most women's thoughts. Kind and maintaining boundaries. Transphobic through and through, obviously 🙄.

I find this hilarious @MargaritaPie what does mean and women mean here?

By all your posts I'm sure you'd argue they could all be the same people?

This is the problem when you obliterate the meaning of words. You remove the accuracy and reliability of data.

As I said, I know a lot of women. Some of course are close to me and I know them well and you could assume they share a lot of my opinions and values. But I know hell of a lot more as colleagues, parents at school, clubs and activities, through professionals associations, shared interest forums etc and it is so rare to meet or discuss this issue with anyone who thinks men in women's sports or men in women's showers or prisons is ok. These people are not selected in this issue and yet they all say, "er no"

If you say to women, "do you want to have the right to have a biological female carry out your smear/mammogram or act as a chaperone if the hcp carrying out our intimate exam is a man?," you will be hard pushed to find one who says no.

If you say to women, "if you run a race or even parkrun, do you think your times and places should be compared to men who feel like women?" They will say no.

If you say to parents, "when your daughter goes on a school trip, do you care if a biological female staff member if present on the trip? Would you be happy for them to only be accompanied by biological male members of staff?" You will find that parents of daughters, who may start or experience female issues such as their first period while away, do not consider that a man who feels like a women is a woman.

I keep raising this issue with women I know who aren't following the politics of it. They nearly all say that they think that people should be able to wear what they want, be called what they want, not be discriminated against regarding jobs/housing. But they think third spaces should be provided for toilets/changing/hospital wards.

That is pretty much the result of recent polling done by the More in Common research group.

There's a very clear and statistical distinction between the views around "live and let live" and even "if they think they're women, let them think that" (which I think is what many people might say is what they mean by TWAW), and the "logical" extension of the TWAW view into allowing men to compete in women's sports, and have unrestricted entry to women's single-sex spaces.

www.moreincommon.org.uk/our-work/research/britons-and-gender-identity/

Here we go.....

Gomersal, bloke, Hayton, bloke

Where is the otherside where is there someone on the GC side

When the situation is clear and not made opaque, the public is against males in women's spaces. Because of all the obvious reasons why. When polls are made confusing and words are twisted, people get confused and you get different results.

But for a poll to be useful, anyone carrying it out would want it to use clear language, right?

Gomersal, bloke, Hayton, bloke

Seriously? Fuck that.

I'm going to c&p a post I've just written on the AIBU thread which has just maxed out. It covers everything I want to say about TRA use of "more women support trans rights".

So many people started at being kind. But to say that the majority of people support trans people is only superficially true.

When the actualities of this support is probed, then no. Only an extreme minority, for whatever reason, support the current demands that are presented as ‘trans rights’.

This. It's a lie, and I'm tired of it. Gaslighting. Women support fluffy, meaningless statements like "everyone should be able to identify as the gender they want to". The majority of women do not support males in women's spaces unless they have had what used to be called "sex change surgery", ie they have had their penis inverted to form a simulacrum of a vagina. Obviously they can't have an actual vagina, as it connects to a whole female reproductive system that males don't have.

Also, the majority of women do not support making it easier to get a GRC. They do not support giving GRCs or puberty blockers to children. They do not support males competing against females in non mixed sports.

So, it's a half truth. All they support is that some males can call themselves women, and if they have full physical surgery, they can use women's spaces. I disagree, but I'm not going to lie about the majority view, unlike trans rights activists.

Sean Fletcher couldn't stop blinking when he was looking at Ellie talking! Took his brain a while to cope with the dissonance.

By Gormersall:

The gender bill won’t affect you, but it will make life a bit easier for trans people like me

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/965b7f60-9914-11ed-ae85-8165ffa85053?shareToken=390801ab4073c5dce3ef1481219a56e9

The top comment with 769 votes:

"The bill would have no effect on most of the population? It would mean vulnerable disabled and elderly women needing intimate care had to accept a male carer because they self identified as female. It would mean girls getting all the benefits of a single-sex education would suddenly have young males self identifying as females in their sixth forms. It would mean women with ptsd triggered by men after being raped would have to sit beside them in rape support groups - or sleep in the next room in women’s shelters. And it would mean that any single one of us, male or female, who spoke the evidence of our own two eyes about an individual’s sex would be labelled transphobic, and quite possibly convicted of a “hate crime”.
No effect?"

Second one with 509:

"I’m afraid I have to respectfully disagree with your idea that women have not been harmed, because only look at the accounts of women’s prisons to demonstrate this is absolutely not the case."

None of these male people are going to come across as women to the majority of the watching public, at least.

Anyone else watched it? My god, the level of 'debate' was pathetic. I was shouting at the TV.

Who was that Hera ? woman who ended on 'women in this country used to be frightened of black men'? Which was right at the end and went totally unchallenged.

The interviewer wasn't up to it either. Who briefs them? I know, 21yo woke interns.

What happened to Robin White who I expected to be there?

Gah!

He introduced Gomersal as Eddie!

Absolutely hilarious 🤣

Yup. DH incredulous.

"But doesn't the NHS need to know your anatomy?"

"How come you can change a birth certificate"

SUNLIGHT!

😎

RMW wasn't there?

That was horrendous! Absolutely horrendous. The presenter started it with such a weird framing too.

So many undefined phrases, "acquired gender" "living as" "gender based violence"

No mention of sports AT ALL

Where was RMW?

Nothing on RMW's feed as to why the no-show

I watched it. I was very impressed with Ellie, whom I haven't come across before. She got many of the important points in, in a very calm and articulate manner. I hope we hear more from her, because she was great. Hera - who tried to muddy the argument by talking about men of colour was entirely disingenuous. And the young trans woman who has now become the face of this campaign it seems, who is everywhere, either didn't know the facts about legal sex or was being economical with the truth. Hayton was alright. No sign of Robin White.

Note the shoehorning in of the idea that trans has nothing to do with gender dysphoria. What is it then?

Do you get the feeling that the twitter response to their post was a bit surprising to them? They realised they'd bitten off more than they could chew?

They bigged up this segment and then barely gave it any time at all, barely explored the issues, had a very naive presenter asking the questions...

Do you think they said last night, "shhhiiiiit. We can do it but so quickly that hopefully we can gloss over the whole thing..."

Robin was probably meant to be on the show, had definitely prepared to be on the show, but definitely wasn’t responsible for the preparation being of poor quality because that’s not Robin’s job to organise and hence didn’t make it.

Probably.

Definitely got the feeling the presenter was having a WTF moment during it all

Notbad