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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph: Exclusive: World Athletics set to allow transgender athletes to compete against women under new rules

91 replies

ResisterRex · 21/01/2023 11:02

Familiar territory:

"Documents seen by the Telegraph show World Athletics’ “preferred option” would instead halve of the maximum permitted plasma testosterone for trans women to 2.5 nanomoles per litre and double the period they must remain below that threshold before being allowed to compete to two years.
The confidential consultation involving one of the biggest sports yet to rewrite its trans rules was sent to member federations amid strict secrecy over that preferred option, which was presented to the governing body’s council at the end of November.
A final decision over the planned new policy will be made by the council in March, with the Telegraph told the preferred option is not yet certain to be adopted.
That option is fiercely opposed by the likes of Fair Play for Women, whose director of sport, Fiona McAnena, said: “It is beyond doubt that the effects of male puberty are irreversible. Testosterone suppression impairs male performance a bit but it does not remove male advantage and it doesn’t make it fair for trans-identifying males to compete in women’s events.
"Sport relies on fairness. Categories, by age, sex and disability, are how we make it fair and inclusive for all. Trans inclusion leads to female exclusion.
“There should be a place in sport for everyone, of both sexes and all gender identities or none. That place is not in the female category, which has to be restricted to those who have not got the lifelong advantages of male puberty.”"
www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2023/01/20/exclusive-world-athletics-set-allow-transgender-athletes-compete/

Also here with another link:

twitter.com/fondofbeetles/status/1616611142675185664?s=46&t=lylsIVaXDKTr7AvY58gHIw

OP posts:
NotBadConsidering · 21/01/2023 11:20

Seb Coe is all hot air and no substance. Get a woman in charge of World Athletics.

nilsmousehammer · 21/01/2023 11:26

Excellent statement from Fiona. Straight to the point and clear. Trans inclusion is female exclusion: this is the raw fact of it.

waterwitch · 21/01/2023 11:26

And, for example, the advantages of pelvic geometry, how are they going to address that?

Loughborough Uni has had years of sports science investigations, and still haven’t managed to publish one convincing paper that there is any fair way to include men who identify as women in women’s sport. How can World Athletics defend this? 🤷‍♀️

trythisforsize · 21/01/2023 11:30

That's womens advances in sport for the last 50 years fucked then

Apollo441 · 21/01/2023 11:31

It is a relentless assault.
But when will they understand we will never accept this. EVER.

IneedanewTV · 21/01/2023 11:34

Honestly fed up with all of this. Why are we constantly having to defend ourselves! We make up 51% of the population yet just constantly we are being eroded.

ReedRite · 21/01/2023 11:40

If they adopt these rules and a majority of elite female athletes refuse to compete en masse, they’ll be fucked, won’t they? Nobody will watch and the sponsors will conclude it’s not worth spending their money on it.

xeraco · 21/01/2023 11:50

Women must walk out. It's the only way this nonsense will be ended.

BellaAmorosa · 21/01/2023 11:53

Cowardly, unscientific and utterly disprespectful.

I've seen a tweet suggesting Linda Blade (Canadian coach sports administrator, and feminist) is in favour of forming breakaway organisations for women's sport. If I can find more info I will post it. But I think that may be the only way. Not for all sports - triathlon, boxing, swimming and tennis seem ok, for example but definitely for athletics and football. Women by and large built up our own sports from nothing, then (like idiots) merged with men's versions and this is the result. However lovely or wellmeaning an individual man is, women have to understand that men's interests as a class, will never totally align with women's, as a class.
And in the short term, we have to make sure sport governing bodies are more afraid of legal action from women than from men.

nauticant · 21/01/2023 11:56

halve of the maximum permitted plasma testosterone for trans women to 2.5 nanomoles per litre and double the period they must remain below that threshold before being allowed to compete to two years

What they're doing is having rules that can be declared to be "trans inclusive" while hoping that the hoops to jump through are enough of a pain that enough transwomen won't bother so that the impacts of those who do will be low enough in terms of visibility that they'll be below the awareness of the public.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/01/2023 12:02

If a woman doped up with that amount of testosterone, would she be banned as a drug cheat?

Rainbowshit · 21/01/2023 12:03

So disappointed with this. I though Seb Coe understood the issues.

DrDinosaur · 21/01/2023 12:04

It’s just so stupid.
We have separate sports for men and women because there are TWO TYPES oh human, and we are physically different.
Whatever they choose to do to their bodies, men are not women.

Birdsweepsin · 21/01/2023 12:05

Will betting on 'mixed' athletic events be permitted? Because if so I think I can see a way to make money out of this terrible news....

Pixiedust1234 · 21/01/2023 12:12

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/01/2023 12:02

If a woman doped up with that amount of testosterone, would she be banned as a drug cheat?

We all kinda know that certain East German athletes had "extra help" during competitions many decades ago which leads me to wonder...would they have been trounced too by a transwoman, or would the competition have been fairly equal?

And yes, I'm fully aware that normal women got/get screwed over by both.

Pixiedust1234 · 21/01/2023 12:13

Sorry @MrsOvertonsWindow , dont know why I quoted you.

Musomama1 · 21/01/2023 12:14

It just seems to me that World Athletics are going 'there must be a compromise' route. Just because some men have demanded to be included in the female category

That's all it took, a handful of male voices to make a major alteration.

A hard no. You can't compromise on fairness. Something is either fair or not. I won't watch this.

DrDinosaur · 21/01/2023 12:16

From the article “while still providing a path for trans women and XY DSD individuals to compete in the female category”.
What is wrong with the men who come up with this nonsense - no males need to be in the category exclusively fo females.

ReedRite · 21/01/2023 12:22

Birdsweepsin · 21/01/2023 12:05

Will betting on 'mixed' athletic events be permitted? Because if so I think I can see a way to make money out of this terrible news....

Very good point. I can’t see the bookies being pleased with this.

Rainbowshit · 21/01/2023 12:24

Birdsweepsin · 21/01/2023 12:05

Will betting on 'mixed' athletic events be permitted? Because if so I think I can see a way to make money out of this terrible news....

Well no because the betting companies are not stupid and the odds will reflect the reality that everyone knows and understands that males have an undeniable biological advantage.

lieselotte · 21/01/2023 12:25

I sincerely hope that the Telegraph is wrong about this.

Clymene · 21/01/2023 12:26

If men shout loud enough, they get their own way. Time and again.

nilsmousehammer · 21/01/2023 12:29

It always comes down to the same thing.

Collateral damage to females is an acceptable price for giving this group of special males whatever they want.

It's entirely sex based.

ReedRite · 21/01/2023 12:32

nilsmousehammer · 21/01/2023 12:29

It always comes down to the same thing.

Collateral damage to females is an acceptable price for giving this group of special males whatever they want.

It's entirely sex based.

In a nutshell.

flyingbuttress43 · 21/01/2023 12:41

Two things need to happen.
1 Mass boycott by all female athletes
2 Mass boycott + if a transwoman insists on using female changing rooms, all the females, instead of refusing to use the room should bodily chuck them out. (MtoF may be stronger than one, two or even three women, but good luck beating 10 of them).

The Scottish furore shows what mass publicity can do to alert the public let's see what the publicity will do from the above.

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