Telegraph: Exclusive: World Athletics set to allow transgender athletes to compete against women under new rules

[ResisterRex]

Familiar territory:

"Documents seen by the Telegraph show World Athletics’ “preferred option” would instead halve of the maximum permitted plasma testosterone for trans women to 2.5 nanomoles per litre and double the period they must remain below that threshold before being allowed to compete to two years.
The confidential consultation involving one of the biggest sports yet to rewrite its trans rules was sent to member federations amid strict secrecy over that preferred option, which was presented to the governing body’s council at the end of November.
A final decision over the planned new policy will be made by the council in March, with the Telegraph told the preferred option is not yet certain to be adopted.
That option is fiercely opposed by the likes of Fair Play for Women, whose director of sport, Fiona McAnena, said: “It is beyond doubt that the effects of male puberty are irreversible. Testosterone suppression impairs male performance a bit but it does not remove male advantage and it doesn’t make it fair for trans-identifying males to compete in women’s events.
"Sport relies on fairness. Categories, by age, sex and disability, are how we make it fair and inclusive for all. Trans inclusion leads to female exclusion.
“There should be a place in sport for everyone, of both sexes and all gender identities or none. That place is not in the female category, which has to be restricted to those who have not got the lifelong advantages of male puberty.”"
www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2023/01/20/exclusive-world-athletics-set-allow-transgender-athletes-compete/

Also here with another link:

twitter.com/fondofbeetles/status/1616611142675185664?s=46&t=lylsIVaXDKTr7AvY58gHIw

That ^^

I did wonder how long it would be before in an open category competing against non TQ+ males there would be the wails of it being unfair, never being able to win or have records - all the things females have been told doesn't matter and is unkind to mind about.

I'd like to watch and celebrate elite athletes who just happen to be TQ+, competing in a category of their own. As opposed to being expected to celebrate the beauty of a male athlete being validated in a women's competition, which has now been reduced to nothing more than a set of props for a male person's lovely experience.

In some events transwomen could be separately listed within the open category, so still recognised for exceptional performance within the category - particularly in individual events like athletics and swimming.

In a way I hope sport might help a drift towards a genuine demedicalisation - not removing medical diagnoses, but reducing the amount of 'treatment'.

I agree, @Helleofabore, there will never be any data or studies which show us that men are or have become women.

I profoundly disagree with all the suggestions of a third, category for male or female people who claim a special identity. Sport categories exist to recognise and compensate for overwhelming performance advantages like age, disability and (biggest of all) sex. They exclude classes of people, not individuals. Having a special identity is entirely irrelevant to athletic performance, so there is no need to create a special category to recognise it. Most males with gender dysphoria or claiming special identities and virtually all females with the same issues compete in their sex/age/disability/weight, etc class. As they should. We should not entertain the idea that we need special categories for factors irrelevant to athletic performance.

Same applies to men with DSDs - unless their specific condition is disabling, in which case a category could be carved out in disabled sport, but I suspect the numbers would not stack up. Why on earth should we have a special category or separate recording of results for males like Semenya, Seyni and Masilingi who have gone through normal male puberty? What's to stop them competing in the male category? Nothing.

There are a million heartwarming stories out there about women and men who overcame serious or life-threatening illnesses and conditions to excel at sport.
The whole of disabled sport showcases athletes who are living with conditions or injuries which do affect their performance. That is why we exclude from disabled sport athletes who do not face the same challenges. Basically, from a sport perspective, there's nothing special about people with special identities and we shouldn't pretend there is.

@BellaAmorosa oh wow well said. I'd been of the opinion that third/fourth categories were the best option, but yes, why should we create something special for them, when there's already somewhere they can compete.

Competitive sport by it's nature excludes loads of people - I've always been too short to be an exemplary netball player, for instance. I recognise that competitive netballing is not going to be for me - I don't insist on their being a separate category for 5'4 women 😂

Yes

I suspect that it will be rare DSDs that would qualify for a DSD category. As I said, CAIS would be one. Not because they are 'disabled' but they don't process testosterone so they cannot compete against males and if the studies start to show that there are advantages (such as height) then they may no longer qualify for the female category.

However, I suspect that research would start showing that those with other DSDs actually can compete with males equally and there is absolutely no reason they cannot.

And there is no way that one group of males should be included because they are 'trans' above any other male who has had to make choices about their medical treatments. There was never a case for them to be included outside some models of philosophical thinking and the call for kindness.

@Helleofabore
I also agree that CAIS women are a genuinely grey area because they haven't been through male puberty, but ultimately they are male - on average significantly stronger and taller than women though not as dramatically so as men who have gone through puberty. Height and strength are generally advantageous in sport. And the menstrual cycle does not disrupt their training - no hours missed because of pain, no relaxin secreted to loosen their ligaments and increase the risk of soft tissue injury.

@IaminRome
😀

James Ellington

twitter.com/jellington100m/status/1618957521397637122?s=46&t=iWJTNcyLETZ2grVmt3XXyg

James Ellington has been getting some hassle, which he's replying to:

twitter.com/jellington100m/status/1619092000065863683?s=46&t=WnyMwWziU2F1PwOL7UirJw

I think there already are some older studies that suggest CAIS is overrepresented in elite female sport but the problem is that the data isn't collected properly any more.

Yes, the study of the Atlanta Olympics found 3 athletes with CAIS out of approx 3000 athletes tested, so a rate of 1:1000 compared to a population rate of 1:20000 or 1:60000 depending on different sources.

So it would suggest that it’s over represented as a condition but hard to know from just 3 athletes. That’s why sex verification with chromosomes on all elite athletes should be compulsory.

It may be that CAIS proffers no advantage, but maybe those 3 athletes were the entire high jump podium, or all swimming gold medalists, or middle distance medalists, which should prompt a discussion about skeletal advantages.

Re CAIS my view as a grassroots level athlete is that inclusion has to be guided by the evidence on whether there's a material performance benefit. If you have CAIS probably you do look phenotypically female and certainly would have had female socialisation - but we also shouldn't be starting from the point of view that anyone who does not fit into the category "standard man" gets to go in with the women. If the evidence didn't show overrepresentation of CAIS I'd be supportive of inclusion, if it did I'd probably think that a specialist category would be the right approach. If female sport is supposed to be about celebrating and exploring the limits of female performance then it cannot be right to include people who are not starting from the position of category: female. I do recognise the difficulty though and I don't think that all of the same ethical principles apply around CAIS as with other examples of male DSD and certainly with MTF trans athletes.

I think it is time to cut the include before proof to exclude crap.

I think it is time to actually take a protect fairness until proven that there is no advantage route.

I am the least sporty person ever and rarely watch sport.

I am devastated that a generation of women will be damaged by decisions like this and don't understand how it can be allowed. The only silver lining is that it will soon become apparent what the consequences for women's sport is going to be and I foresee a very rapid backtracking in the future (hopefully). Once biological men start winning everything, breaking records all over the place and relegating women to last place, I can't see how it can continue. Sadly many talented young women will suffer in the meantime.

Usual tactics aren't working on him! I do feel like there's a mood change.

Lennon-Ford

twitter.com/lukey400m/status/1619454129629462528?s=46&t=-F6jj0eY8Spmg2Fx4CkRrQ

It feels like there are more men in sports that are willing to stand up for women than in other sectors. Is it because they understand the sacrifices you make, to train and compete at such levels? You don't see hardly any men speaking out in education, the media, the civil service, health, the police etc. Where those men exist, you can rattle off the names immediately and it doesn't take long.

This is not women's sport. As soon as there is one man in it, it becomes mixed sex.

The same goes for prisons, refuges, hospital wards, the lot. None of these have women only spaces. They have men's spaces and mixed sex spaces. What the actual fuck is wrong with the absolute fools who make these decisions?

There is no compromise to be had. Women's spaces are for women and men need to GTF out!