Radio 4 AntiSocial - Brits gender neutral awards and non-binary

[inkjet]

Is anyone listening? Nicky, the actress and campaigner comes across really well.

Sorry, Derbyshire.

Sam Ryder, the one wot didn't win Eurovision

I only caught a few minutes too (my kitchen is very noisy today) but I did hear Victoria Derbyshire slip up and call Sam Smith him. She then did a very clumsy correction to they, but in the context of the sentence (which I can't remember without listening) it should have been them. Poor Victoria. I bet she didn't foresee all this bollocksy bollocks when she was just being kind on her TV show to poor TW criminals who were sad about being in men's prisons.

Is anyone listening to R4 now? I've just heard a tiny bit of an item that seemed to be about Meta (the instagram and Facebook platform) being transphobic because it can't distinguish between a non-binary nipple and a female one. (Of course, female nipples are banned on account of women's bodies being highly sexual, whereas those clever NBs have identified out of all that degrading nonsense and display their nipples for Art.) Again, I missed a lot of it because of noise and disruption here, but it sounded like it might be worth a listen again to marvel at the madness.

A surfeit of Sams

Let me guess. They were both white, weren't they? And middle class. And they'd been to university.

Charlie did a good job of illustrating social contagion and the influence one strong character in a friendship group and watching a load of videos can have on someone who feels that they don't fit in.

She came across as surprisingly feminine. Much more feminine that most of the young women I know who know that they are female, but don't want to be limited by gendered stereotypes and society's expectations.

at least they have three females discussing.

The Nb person saying they can't get married. <eye roll> It's all fake issues. A need to have "an issue" that people can applaud and pom pom wave for them.

Sam smith is so sexist.

It's so dangerous. My youngest boy is a clearly less athletic in his body than his older wiry brother. I don't want him to think he's "less" of a boy or a man due to his body.

It's so depressingly sexist and clearly driven by commercialism and visual media.

Smith thinks a man can only 'look' a certain way.

A very weird interview on world at one radio 4 today. Someone female blithering on about whose nipples are allowed on Meta, and saying it is unfair to nbs trans queer people . Extraordinary nonsense to the point where the presenter talked about under age adults! No idea what any of the points were but utterly irrelevant for a major news programme. It wasn’t Sarah Montague.

Apologies *winterTrees, failed to see your comment before posting.

I heard the Meta segment too WinterTrees and had the same reaction of grim amusement.

And then we were three Ramblingnamechanger.

Someone female blithering on about whose nipples are allowed on Meta, and saying it is unfair to nbs trans queer people

huh? My understanding is that their policy is explicitly pandering nonsense. Female nipples are allowed if the nipple owner claims to be nb or trans. How is a TRA managing to extract victimhood from that?

I guess nature finds a way.

Wasn’t it illustrative that since the Grammy’s dropped male and female categories in 2013 that only 13% of subsequent winners have been female. The move to ensure no non binary person would be offended by being nominated in a sexed category has led to the erasure of winning females. Subsequent huge financial losses with less exposure. What was astounding was how Charlie the NB gave these statistics without seemingly being aware that they were the problem too.

I didn't hear the whole thing, but was getting irritated by Nikki's missed opportunity to mention that women are about 50% of the population that's now disadvantaged by the awards in order to include the .05% who are trans/NB.

Also that the awards have always been allocated by sex, not gender, so they were perfectly inclusive already- as everyone has a sex whether they have a gender identity or not.

I mean, who unilaterally redefined the categories?

Just listened on BBC Sounds. What a lot of pussyfooting around, with everyone scared to say anything too inflammatory. You don't get that with any other topics. And both Nicky and Victoria managed to use the wrong pronouns for Sam Smith anyway 😂
Those comments SS made about getting fat where women do will hopefully have had a lot Radio 4 listeners agog.

And Charlie may identify as NB but all that apologising was pure female socialisation.

Lots of missed opportunities though.

I think the regular host might have done a better job here. Victoria didn't challenge anything that was said, and he's (literally) more ballsy.

I wouldn't count on Adam Fleming being more willing to challenge unusual claims:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4605119-drag-queens-and-libraries-radio-4-discussion

I listened to that one nauticant, and other episodes. I'm not saying he's a perfect alternative but VD was a worse option.

Anyway, I'm pleased to have learned that my fat accumulation suggest I'm a veritable goddess!

I thought this was a really good programme. 3 female voices ( sorry Charlie!) calmly discussing the topic from different view points and on the whole being given the time to explain themselves. I thought the clear and extensive explanation of what non-binary is was fantastic! Obviously there may be people who listened and thought it all made perfect sense but I think this will really wake people up to what self indulgent nonsense it is! There's nothing better than someone who truly believes in gender ideology explaining it to highlight how arbitrary and superficial it all is! The fact that Charlie sounds intelligent and motivated made it sound all the more strange because it still makes no sense. I have the feeling they will look back on this with embarrassment when they get a little older and wiser!

I did feel for Nicky, having to work out which bits to respond to.

Yes, the assertion that she was already at a disadvantage being female for the first 25 years of her life before becoming NB and now she was at even more at a disadvantage because there was no genre purely for NB people, but she was glad women didn't have a separate category (I was driving and I might have missed something) left me feeling really upset and has stayed with me all after afternoon. It was a real FU moment. I feel devastated that so many young women are rejecting their sex — not that they can reject it, obvs.

I have friends whose NB adult child (with a penis) married a NB adult (with a cervix

So just another boring old straight couple then.

The non binaries whining pretending they can't get married is because it means they have to acknowledge that, yes, they do have a sex and that they are just making shit up to pretend they are oppressed and a victim.

Sam smith is a man whether he wears a sparkly jumpsuit or puts on weight. A man who has fucked over female artists because of his need to feel special and pretend he is something other than the rest of us boring men and women.

@pattihews ah I missed the bit about Charlie feeling that she was at even more at a disadvantage because there was no genre purely for NB people. Such little joined up thinking and I’d have liked Nikki to have pointed out how the loss of the female category has been so damaging to women!

Charlie even spoke about how disadvantaged women were because the vast majority in the music industry are men ie they nominate and promote and produce for each other. I get why Charlie might want to identify how of their sex, but rest assured every man in the music industry will still see them as female. We cannot identify out of our oppression however much we’d like to.

This was an excellent moment - use clear language