Is anyone else watching the debate in the HOC live now?

[Sausagenbacon]

Gripping stuff. Unfortunately I've missed the 1st 30 minutes, and I'm hoping I can catch up.

Me too. The state of them today, so embarrassing. Was Ms Black on something? She certainly looked in need of a shower. On the whole they were rude and uncouth. Really not fit to be Parliamentarians in my opinion. I was very proud and impressed with Miriam Cates. She's a Goddess. I wish she was my MP!

Has LOJ exploded yet?

Will we even notice?

I would like every politician who claims GRCs make no difference to access to single sex spaces to be asked, on record, whether they think it makes no difference and single (birth-) sex spaces are still allowed, or they think it makes no difference and single sex spaces were never allowed. On record. Just so we know exactly what we're talking about and they don't swivel later.

If they say it is allowed, a little more quizzing about when they would agree it was appropriate, and maybe how practically it can be achieved given the secrecy requirements around GRCs and that birth sex is not retained on any document.

Come on journalists, ask them. Don't let them hide behind reassuring sounding words that mean opposite things depending on who you're talking to.

This gender identity stuff seems to have people losing their minds.

and men to be able even in parliament to shout down women. On the grounds the women are transphobic. And Deserve being shouted at

witches

just like what happened to women in the past

witches

its the most bizarre thing ever

On The Guardians politics live feed today there were alot of comments sympathetic to GC views. Then there was a post from The Guardian saying there was a technical fault and that no more comments could be added. I think the mods just couldn't delete the comments supporting women's rights quick enough !

It's just weird seeing people trying to reenact twitter-style performative outrage /in the house of commons/. Who put these tantrumming toddlers in charge of the country? When are the grown-ups coming back?

@WeeTorag
Agreed! Decidedly grubby and scruffy

Clearly GRR is far more important to the SNP than independence is, but it will surely also not escape notice that Russell-Moyle and colleagues in the “Labour” party clearly give greater priority to “transphobia” than to supporting the current trade union struggles up and down the country.

swap the ''TRANSPHOBIC!'' For ''BLASPHEMY!''

..It makes you realise they are utterly outraged that people are questioning the dogma, regardless of the logic or sense of the questioning itself.

Whether these people are trying to orottect their religion because they are true believers or because it serves them in another way, remains to be seen.

On The Guardians politics live feed today there were alot of comments sympathetic to GC views. Then there was a post from The Guardian saying there was a technical fault and that no more comments could be added. I think the mods just couldn't delete the comments supporting women's rights quick enough !

Wow, I'm amazed they allowed any comments at all!

This gender identity stuff seems to have people losing their minds.

Yes. What is it about this one issue that gets people so absolutely rabid?

I have lived through 30 years of politics and never seen anything like this.

All through that time people were angry about a huge range of issues.

There were only ever a couple of extremely sensitive issues like Israel/Palestine or the IRA where having the wrong opinion might have people complaining to your employer to try to get you sacked.

Even that is not remotely comparable with what is happening now which I can only call mass hysteria (sorry I don't know a better word). Grown adults screaming abuse at each other and cutting ties to friends and family. It is absolutely bizarre.

Blasphemy:

• The action or offence of speaking sacrilegiously about God [transwomen] or sacred [gender identity] things; profane talk
• '[S]he was detained on charges of blasphemy [Transphobia]
• Something that you say or do that shows you do not respect God [transpeople] or [gender identity] religion

Heretic: noun a person believing in or practising religious heresy.

synonyms: dissident, dissenter, nonconformist, unorthodox thinker, heterodox thinker, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast, schismatic, renegade, disruptor, sceptic, agnostic, atheist, non-theist, non-believer, unbeliever, separatist, sectarian, revisionist, tergiversator, recreant, recusant, nullifidian, paynim, [TERF].

HERESY:
(The act of having) an opinion or belief that is the opposite of or against what is the official or popular [kind] opinion, or an action that shows that you have no respect for the official opinion:

''Radical remarks like this amount to heresy for most members of the Republican [ Scottish National Trans] party

I think it is the affect of social media, people falling down trans algorithm rabbit holes, which are programing their minds like cults do.

If you think this sounds nuts please watch 'The Social Contagion', by Tristan Harris who used to work for facebook but realised that what we are now witnessing (extremist social meltdown) was likely to happen. He now runs the Centre for Humane Technology.

If you find that interesting then I also reccomend 'The Great Hack' about Cambridge Analytica. They are a company who made alot of money using social media to make people fanatical about certain things... it shows you how these things work. And HOW MUCH money there is to be made programming people to hold certain opinions....

.... apparently there is a proportion of society who are able to be convinced about something. Others are infallible, but you get this actually quite small, influencable percentage of people to be fanatical about something, and it creates huge societal change. Big bucks in that.

According to this post from Wings Over Scotland last year :

':Being seriously mentally disturbed is now a positive career advantage in the SNP (it’s seemingly almost as much so as being a creepy sex pest with a fondness for younger men), as the party’s selection rules give explicit priority to people who have – or who claim to have – conditions like Borderline Personality Disorder, which might seem to a dispassionate observer like the most absolutely catastrophic match possible for a job as intrinsically antagonistic and adversarial as being a politician.

Being seriously mentally disturbed is now a positive career advantage in the SNP (it’s seemingly almost as much so as being a creepy sex pest with a fondness for younger men), as the party’s selection rules give explicit priority to people who have – or who claim to have – conditions like Borderline Personality Disorder, which might seem to a dispassionate observer like the most absolutely catastrophic match possible for a job as intrinsically antagonistic and adversarial as being a politician.

Not impressed by Lord Hope on ITV news saying the age limit of 16 means it affects single sex schools but there are not many in scotland so it doesn’t matter there but there are more in England... once again “it doesn’t matter as it only affects a few women/girls”

Who was Lord Hope before he became a massive cunt?

Yes, there was at least one other who stood up and spoke for women. I can't recall her name now, sorry.

The media and sections of politics trying desperately to control the narrative, when it seems quite clear what the majority of people think about men in women's prisons, rape support centres, changing rooms and toilets.

I was listening to Radio 4 earlier this evening and was encouraged to hear someone refer to 'changing the sex on your birth certificate'. When they use the word 'gender' it sounds vague and doesn't really spell out what's happening. I feel hopeful that some people might have heard 'sex' and thought for the first time how ridiculous it is to change a man's sex to female on their birth certificate.

In my career I had to work with politicians, unionists. Many of them were as thick as mince and absolutely needed a bath and some new clothes. They didn't stint on their expenses though and would drink till dawn, then go on to stand behind a podium spouting absolute nonsense. It was illuminating

It really is odd. And chilling, and terrifying.

I've been blocked from adding comments on The Guardian website for a few years now so I was pleased to see some getting through.

Has anyone ever answered this question? So many MPs (and others) are so quick to reassure us that single-sex spaces and services are still permitted under the Equality Act - why does nobody ever ask HOW?? If a male person changes his legal sex to female by obtaining a GRC (which nobody is allowed to ask to see), and then changing his birth certificate, and his passport and driving licence also say F rather than M, how does a single-sex service provider exclude him in practice?

Douglas Murray weighing on in this now.

Yeah heretics and witches. It’s like we have gone back 2 centurys

can they not see themselves when shouting in HOP. At people who don’t belive in the religion of gender
my nose is wrinkling even when I type that as it is so unbelievable that they can deny it to themselves