Politics Live 10 Jan - Scottish Gender Reform Bill - will it be blocked by Westminster?

[MoirasSaggyBundles]

They will be discussing this on today's programme. Panellists include Sonia Sodha.

Q- long and intrusive process for trans people - is it not right to look at making it easier?

Zoe Stimpel - given that now we live in times when there is a range of extremely highly trained experts focussing on gender dysphoria; given that people claim to suffer from it from babyhood; wouldn't you be thrilled to have medical diagnosis that confirms your dysphoria/identity? Is it so terrible to get medical diagnosis when the risks to women are so high?

[RMW eye-rolling, head tossing and fiddling with hair throughout SS and ZS speaking]

I found that comment from RMW quite sinister.

Press shouldn't be reporting on issues involving TW because it might give the impression that TW are capable of crimes?

Surely as a 'woman' RMW whould realise that woman need to he aware of their dangers. Its how we survive. We need to know who is a threat against us, and often we preempt any threat by removing ourselves from the situation rather than take the chance. It's something woman are doing everyday in single sex spaces that are now mixed sex.

KO asked whether she is prepared to accept the risk. - I think it is important to quantify what these risks are, transpeople are in themselves as a group not a risk. The risk is predatory men.

I think overall Sonia got the message across is the clearest way. The other journalist helped too.

I do think RMW had her say at beginning but the females (excluding the SNP women) won the debate and RMW is very clearly of the male sex, so even if you missed the 1st minute where the did say they were trans, you would be under no illusions.

KO - it's a progressive and sensible measure to bring in this legislation for a marginalised group.

Fuck women and girls, then, Kirsten.

I was punching the air when Sonia and wonderful hair woman were clarifying the issues 💪 they got some great points in.

RW's statement comparing with gay - was RMW part of the gang who lobbied to get T included? Or was the SW?

So insidious. Snp clearly showing they don't care about women.

We do recognise the dangers from males. I was walking home at about 6pm the other night and a man walked really close to me. Way too close. Then he went down a different road to me (residential area, a well-trodden route from a train station) and I felt immediate relief.

Part of me wanted to turn round and ask him not to walk so close. But you don't, do you? You don't take the risk. Most males can kill most females with their bare hands. You can't identify out of that.

While I'm at it, so fucking what if all these other countries have self-ID? Doesn't mean they're right. Doesn't mean they're havens for women's safety whereupon this doesn't matter. Doesn't mean they're not also patriarchal nations where women have been silenced and their needs and concerns designed out.

I found that comment from RMW quite sinister.

Me too.

https://www.womensrights.network/post/what-actually-is-the-risk-posed-by-transwomen

compared to men, transwomen are 251% more likely to commit and be convicted of a sexual offence.

transwomen are 38742% more likely to commit and be convicted of a sexual offence than women.

And that's just the transwomen.

What about the predatory males who will deliberately exploit the loopholes in Scotland?

That data is just England and Scotland.

Q to RMW - isn't it useful for people to have a medical diagnosis if they are not sure or want advice and guidance through this process.

RMW - Waiting times for trans people unbelievably long. Not enough medics in UK for T P needs. Moving away from trans being a medical condition, like we did with being gay, to understanding it is part of the rich tapestry of human life and that some people are trans.

It's a shame they didn't talk more about the gatekeeping for children and detransition issues

I honestly think when GRCs were initially introduced, most people were blissfully ignorant of their existence. It has taken many many years of women raising concerns, for more people to become aware that males can get legal recognition as females, and enter previously believed single sex spaces. Now the cats out of the bag women will not stand for this. It is such an obvious safeguarding loophole things must be changed. For the sake of future generation of children we must repeal the GRA

The reply illustrates the preference for the affirmation model and ignores the question, which is whether people with gender dysphoria will come off worse under self-ID.

SS - Of course some people are trans. The is about balancing the rights of marginalised groups and women using services. WE have to be clear that legally changing your gender (and having this stated on e.g. a death certificate) does not change your sex for the purposes of the EqA and does not effect the law on single sex services that are really important for marginalised women. The Scottish gov has refused to look at this sort of compromise.

Thanks will watch later. Bloody love Sonia.

Zoe was wonderful hair woman - she was great.

It was good to have an all woman studio panel for once. 👏

Q - Should the government block this?

SS - Tricky; leads to a big constitutional shake down and plays into Sturgeon;s hand, but the fact is it does interfere wit the operation of the EqA, and as a point of principle, govt needs to step in for the sake of balancing rights of different groups.

RMW - if the Badenoch Solution goes ahead [RMW really went there with this invective], and we revise the list of countries from which the GRC will not be accepted, incl Scotland - many countries have adopted self id model - it's going to to be very hard when/if the govt think about the section 35 issue, which they have another week to do, because if they have stopped Scottish GRCs having effect in England, how are they going to argue that invoking section 35 is justified; because there will be no effect.

Segment ended here.

I loved Sonia's repressed eye roll when RMW tried to compare something with people with red hair.

Oh yes this bit:

If a single red headed person is a criminal, we don't criminalise all red headed people.

That's not how safeguarding works RMW

I find the "of course some people are trans" a little frustrating as the analysis needs to be so much deeper. Obviously there's not time in a format like Politics Live. But is it a sexuality, is a sense of deep unease in a body, or is it a medical condition? It may well be part of the rich tapestry of the human condition, but not one of those three explanations is adequate to support removal of safeguarding and solidarity spaces for women and girls.

In response to "some people are trans" the question needs to be how does society accommodate that sensitively. Not this is the situation, don't ask questions, move over and shut up women.

Kirsten Oswald completely ignored the level of risk she was prepared to expose women and girls to. It's all about the poor marginalised trans.

RMW just the same old tired arguments, stupid straw men (red heads - why is it always red heads?) and failure to acknowledge that if you don't keep accurate records of people changing their gender to ensure their sex remains recorded for stuff like crime, there will be no accurate statistics, so all you have is anecdotes. And why is the anecdotal evidence of abused women not acceptable, but the anecdotal evidence of the feelings of someone claiming to be the opposite sex perfectly tickets boo?

The pro trans arguments have not moved on at all in the time I've been following this stuff (my 7th year - fuck me). Just keep on doubling down, create a few straw men and hide the real evidence behind shit record keeping.

Waiting times for trans people unbelievably long. Not enough medics in UK for T P needs. Moving away from trans being a medical condition

These two sentences contradict each other.

The point regarding a death certificate being upsetting for a partner if it shows birth sex rather than gender identity indicates how single focussed these arguments are. How about the feelings of the trans widows and the fatherless kids?

As a red headed, left handed female, I have no hope!