Please help! Gender not sex on a school 'protected characteristics' poster, just spoken to the Head!

[Vebrithien]

Good morning,

I started this thread before Christmas

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4684558-today-i-found-my-bravery?page=1

The overview is that my DD's primary school is displaying posters by No Outsiders, which are supposed to show the 9 protected characteristics, but shows gender, not sex.

The (male) deputy head I mentioned it to, before Christmas, has not got back to me. The posters are still there.

I summoned up my courage this morning, and spoke to the Headteacher. She seemed surprised, as I said I'd already mentioned it to one deputy head, and that I'd picked up on it due to my school expecting Ofsted, and reissuing our equality training.

The Head said that it was surprising, as No Outsiders were an organisation whose specialism was equalities.

I replied that the EA2010 says sex, not gender. I also mentioned that there were some concerning resources produced by them, including an assembly where a dad wants to offer violence to children who do not accept his trans child. (I know no more than this)

The Head is going to talk to her other deputy head, whose responsibility this is, and to try to put us in contact.

Where do I do from here?

Can any one help me with evidence? What particularly is dodgy about No Outsiders?

Is there anything that states that schools mustn't misrepresent the EA?

Is there any DofE (or whatever it's called now) guidance for schools on the resources they used or how they represent the EA?

And, how should I go about finding out if the school uses other No Outsiders resources?

Please help, I want as much evidence as I can.

Still shaking with adrenaline from speaking to the Head!

Well done to the posters challenging their schools

i think you are confusing the inner self with presentation.

What is a teenager friendly way of explaining why calling women that, is unacceptable?

You could ask them to break down what it means - whether any person is being excluded for anything due to being trans, or whether this would be a really bad way of determining if someone should or shouldn't be excluded in anything because no-one can say clearly what 'trans' is.

I tell my kids that you just look stupid if you call someone something inaccurate. Like calling a Labour voter 'a Tory'. Break down what it is you are actually claiming and assess whether that is true or not.

How sheltered must someone be to think that 'stereotypes' only relates to appearances!

OP I'd definitely make sure your children are educated about this. Believing 'only girls have THIS type of inner self, and only boys have THAT one' is the sort of thing most children do grow out of, but clearly not all.

i think you are confusing the inner self with presentation.

No, I don't think so. What makes feelings "male" or "female" and how would one "know" their feelings were more like the feelings of the opposite sex?

How sheltered must someone be to think that 'stereotypes' only relates to appearances!

It's odd.

Loads is things that we regard as immutable truths are the product of ideology, yet we accommodate them. Feminism, capitalism, religions, all political systems, justice etc are all the product of ‘ideology’

How would there be no transgender people if there were no stereotypes?

How would we know that people had transitioned unless there were stereotypes? Why does Alex Drummond put on a skirt and tights and wear women's jewellery when he could just continue in his trousers and beard as a trans woman.

Why are there thousands of older male transitioners photographing themselves in women's underwear if there are no stereotypes?

I could go on and on and on but I have to pull on my manly overtrousers and cagoule and beanie hat and go and walk the dog.

If two people have sex together, it is only a biological female who would EVER have to worry about becoming pregnant.

I'd say that moves beyond ideology, and into the realms of basic biology.

It doesn’t really matter. Meaning is culturally constructed. If they believe they do then let’s accept that. Would you rather they live in misery? Transgender people are a very small proportion of the population. A little charity and tolerance goes a long way.

Loads is things that we regard as immutable truths are the product of ideology, yet we accommodate them. Feminism, capitalism, religions, all political systems, justice etc are all the product of ‘ideology’

Yes, both feminism and trans activism are products of ideology. However, sex is biological reality, and innate gender identity is an unfalsifiable belief.

I think you need to look at how younger people are increasingly presenting as gender queer.

What you describe is rather out of date.

If they believe they do then let’s accept that.

They and you can believe and accept whatever you like. Many people don't "accept" that their identity claims trump objective biological reality. If we did you wouldn't be on this thread.

Are you a bored teenager off school and with nothing better to do? Because we're used to a much better standard of argument than this.

Yes, feminism, capitalism, religion etc are ideas. No one disputes that. So is gender ideology. Just an idea that some people have latched on to.

Biology is actuality, not an idea. Name a man who has given birth. Or a male dog, horse or monkey that has given birth, for that matter.

Now I really must get that dog walked.

I don't think religion is an immutable truth, or many (any?) of your other examples are either. Gravity is an immutable truth. Biological sex is an immutable truth.
There are many ongoing debates about all of the ideologies you have listed, so gender fits in nicely. Happening at the global, theoretical, war-starting scale, all the way down to one person trying to do what they think is right about a poster in their child's primary school.
We all have our beliefs, and we defend them, and we try to enact them. We don't just give up because someone tells us to 'calm down' :-)

What you describe is rather out of date.

In the sense of "still happening, but we now pretend it isn't"?

I think you need to look at how younger people are increasingly presenting as gender queer.

What you describe is rather out of date.

What you forget is that we were all teenagers once and we all believed in ridiculous ideas. I fell hook line and sinker for Erich von Danikin's theories that aliens had brought civilisation to earth.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_Däniken

I also thought anyone who didn't agree with me on anything was rather out of date.

Have you read the Adrian Mole books?

I thought the Court of Sessions' jurisdiction was Scotland only, so the Haldane judgment applied to Scotland only. Is that incorrect?

perhaps if you can’t accept, you can still tolerate rather than condem a small vulnerable minority to a life of intolerance and misery. The data points supporting they are any ‘threat’ to women are tiny.

I don’t believe in god, but I accept those that do.

The male ones pose the same risk to women as any other male person. It's also a question of privacy and dignity. Maybe pop back to 2015 Mumsnet and ask these questions then?

Oh, and EastLondonObserver, still waiting for details of any mammalian species who's given birth when I get back from my walk.

My point is that younger transsexual people are less likely to present in the ‘stereotypical’ ways you were referring to in an attempt to undermine the entire idea of transgenderism existing. Your reply was a different point completely.

Wait on. I understand you think this is some sort of devastating response. But my comments above outline my perspective. Feel free to scroll back.

Surprised you're bothering to harangue us about our old hat feminist beliefs that women and girls matter, given how we're unimportant, out of touch and have lost.

Do you have any published research around different contexts that supports transgender people are as much of a ‘threat’ as any ‘male’. Or is it more of personal fear / hypothesis?