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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Scottish police use Minor Attracted Person instead of 'paedophile' in report

277 replies

pattihews · 31/12/2022 11:12

Chief Constable Iain Livingstone has used the acronym MAP (minor attracted Person) in an annual assessment of the force's work with a European project.

We've all wondered what the + is in LGB and TQIA+ haven't we? Well perhaps now we know. As the Telegraph says:

The term MAP is contentious because child abusers are trying to escape the stigma attached to paedophilia and maintain they should be regarded as a niche group alongside the LGBT community.

As a member of the LGB community I object. Archived link from the Telegraph:
archive.today/e9DCa

OP posts:
Boiledbeetle · 31/12/2022 22:15

And don't even get me started on the 10 year fight and over 100k in legal fees with CICA.

As you can imagine trying to pull the highlights out to fit it into a stage play, (which i have discovered is a fantastic way to work things out in your head and find the entertainment in amongst all the shit) has been incredibly cathartic.
Don't worry it will reside on my bookcase only.I'm not that cruel😶

try it though it works wonders focusing on what is actually important to you as the highlights of your life.

I'm supposed to be getting back to it from tomorrow, but I'm stuck in a poem off with @ClitoralViolence .

Can someone get her banned then I can compete my masterpiece.

SammyScrounge · 31/12/2022 22:16

DriftwoodOnTheShore · 31/12/2022 11:52

A paedophile is attracted to pre-pubescent children. The new term applies to those past puberty but under 16.

I can see the reasoning.

This is only hair-splitting and it won't fool anyone. No one is going to care about the several terms applied to child sex abuse instead of paedophilia. People have their own descriptors (not printable here) for paedophiles. And no fancy-dan categories of the stages of puberty

SammyScrounge · 31/12/2022 22:16

will change this.

littlbrowndog · 31/12/2022 22:17

Boiled beetle ❤️❤️❤️✊✊🍸🍸🥃🥃

ClitoralViolence · 31/12/2022 22:21

Oh shit, Boiled, sorry! I'd just sat down to plan my plot for next year. Its a dance off between medlars and chilian guavas and I cant quite decide. Hang right in there

WingingItSince1973 · 31/12/2022 22:22

Well I was sexuallly abused as a 6year old, passed around as an 8 year old and raped as a 16 year old. All I can say is I don't care what they are called I want them strung up by their testicles. Watering down the perversion of these disgusting beings is sickening. We should use the most abhorrent words to describe them as they are sick and have no place among decent members of society. Anything that seems to normalise what these things do to children is disgusting and a blow to victims everywhere.

TightFistedWozerk · 31/12/2022 22:27

To all those abused children, I am so, so sorry.

I am sickened, repulsed, by the efforts to reframe and rename child abuse.

I mean, here we have thoughts of a child, a girl, let us say she is 9 years old, she has developed breasts (secondary sexual characteristics, yes?) and is thus signalling, SIGNALLING!! sexual availability, I mean, just WHAT? Just listen to yourself. You are disgusting to me.

ScrollingLeaves · 31/12/2022 22:28

FrancecaContini 19:41

I don’t know what you meant about ‘my final paragraph’. (19:36):
“Your final paragraph. OMG.”

I did not write it. That paragraph was a quote from the Telegraph and I posted those two paragraphs from the Telegraph because the writer was clearly calling the child abusers paedophiles even if they called themselves MAPS. The Telegraph no where suggested that paedophiles target a younger age group of children, but that MAPS target an older group of children.

Some posters on the other hand have suggested there are different words for the abusers according to which age group they target -the name paedophile applying only to prepubescent children - while the name chosen for the abusers

of slightly older children is different. (NB I do not take it that those posters were apologising for child rape because of this.)

Those who are trying to call themselves MAPS evidently go for very young children too anyway as far as I can make out. It is all a smoke screen. So is the idea that they do no harm if they only watch videos of child rape.

DidyouNO · 31/12/2022 22:32

Police Scotland have put this statement out today. ow.ly/LZpA50MfT3h

Boiledbeetle · 31/12/2022 22:33

ClitoralViolence · 31/12/2022 22:21

Oh shit, Boiled, sorry! I'd just sat down to plan my plot for next year. Its a dance off between medlars and chilian guavas and I cant quite decide. Hang right in there

Look I've been finishing this thing since September it's not going any where.

I'm trying to decide whether to leave the audience to see how my life turns out in the end. Or do i end the play at an earlier stage and leave them wondering as I've been carefully sending my the audience down two paths subtly so far??? So whichever I decide will actually work....hmmmm I'll think on it for another day or month or year or two

Bet Jo didn't procrastinate.

but yeah it can wait. Medlars is probably easier to work with

FrancescaContini · 31/12/2022 22:34

Sorry, @ScrollingLeaves

I was indeed referring to the quoted third paragraph, in bold. The phrase “age of attraction” used in the quote from the Telegraph - this phrase really shocked me.

WingingItSince1973 · 31/12/2022 22:36

@MangyInseam Sexual attraction to a pre-pubescent child is not the same as sexual attraction to someone who has secondary sexual characteristics, which signal sexual fertility. We are animals, and these kinds of biological, embodies signals impact us. That's not abnormal or perverted. Even if it can be something that shouldn't be pursued for other reasons.

What you have written is beyond disgusting. So my 9 year old who started puberty is old enough for these perverts?!! Is that what you mean? Can you please come back and clarify! So many girls go through puberty earlier than say my day. So they are fair game from 9 years onward?! I can't even believe you've sat down and typed that out

DustAndAshes · 31/12/2022 22:41

WingingItSince1973 · 31/12/2022 22:36

@MangyInseam Sexual attraction to a pre-pubescent child is not the same as sexual attraction to someone who has secondary sexual characteristics, which signal sexual fertility. We are animals, and these kinds of biological, embodies signals impact us. That's not abnormal or perverted. Even if it can be something that shouldn't be pursued for other reasons.

What you have written is beyond disgusting. So my 9 year old who started puberty is old enough for these perverts?!! Is that what you mean? Can you please come back and clarify! So many girls go through puberty earlier than say my day. So they are fair game from 9 years onward?! I can't even believe you've sat down and typed that out

And this person was quite happy to direct their posts on this at me, when I've stated that like you I am a survivor of CSA.

ScrollingLeaves · 31/12/2022 22:43

It is beyond belief how many women have been sexually abused as children. On this thread alone who would guess the hell so many of your little selves were put through and it is a concern that this all might be bringing it back too. Thank you for sharing your experience to show the truth about these terrible people 💐💐💐

It is all a living nightmare and it doesn’t bear thinking about how these monsters are proliferating their evil selves through the internet and creeping in with their official, sanitised name.

Boiledbeetle · 31/12/2022 22:45

Are we experiencing live action apologisting going on.ooh fascinating even after the rant

MangyInseam · 31/12/2022 22:48

DustAndAshes · 31/12/2022 21:58

That's not abnormal or perverted.

Sexual attraction to children is peverted, and has a name: paediphilia.

You can pretend it's "normal" if you like but you're wrong. It's vile.

I didn't say I know anything about your life and nor do I want to. I simply find apologism for abusive predators abhorrent.

I don't know if you actually aren't reading the posts, or what. No one has said it's ok to abuse teenagers. Or for that matter, to sexually abuse adults, even though sexual attraction to other adults is perfectly normal. Abusers are abusers.

Paedophilia is a term from psychology, so it does have a meaning that relates to a specific type of person and a specific abnormal condition. And paedophiles do not have the same kind of disordered thinking or attraction that people who are attracted to those who have entered or passed puberty. Not all child sexual abusers are even diagnosed as paedophiles, there can be other kinds of things that trigger sexual abuse, there are for example people who are almost totally indifferernt to the object of abuse, so long as they are in a position of power.

But it's not ok to go around accusing people you know nothing about of being abuse apologists because they don't have the same viewpoint you do, or to insinuate that of course they never have been abused themselves and they probably have nefarious reasons for their POV.

This discussion is about the ways language communicates the nature of child sexual abusers. It's not odd, unexpected, or immoral that some people might want to take a more clinically based approach to that - I argued against the use of MAP for just that reason. I think it's important at a social level to understand the real medical and psychological elements of sexual abuse in order to have resilient social systems that protect against it.

Others may differ, and we can discuss it, but I am not calling them apologists for perverts because I think their ideas might result in less effective systems in the long run.

DustAndAshes · 31/12/2022 22:49

@DriftwoodOnTheShore should perhaps ask themself how many accounts they've read from children who as adult then believe that their abuse was a wonderful, positive life experience.

Zero.

What a shock.

So stop trying to justify it and pretend it's wanted, even if it was possible for a child to give consent, when we all know it isn't. It's rape, it's traumatising and ruins people's lives and the apologisits have blood on their hands.

ScrollingLeaves · 31/12/2022 22:50

Decent men do not allow themselves to react to the changing bodies of children. They set themselves out to protect them.

Datun · 31/12/2022 22:51

FrancescaContini · 31/12/2022 22:34

Sorry, @ScrollingLeaves

I was indeed referring to the quoted third paragraph, in bold. The phrase “age of attraction” used in the quote from the Telegraph - this phrase really shocked me.

I'm sure I wrote a post on here about those Twitter profiles, but it's disappeared.

It's true Twitter absolutely allowed paedophiles to call themselves maps and nomaps and to put the ages of the children they were interested in in their profiles, for instance, 0 to 6 months. I saw it with my own fucking eyes.

They allowed it.

DdraigGoch · 31/12/2022 22:52

FOJN · 31/12/2022 21:06

The judge suspended the sentence because he thought he could be rehabilitated, FFS, 17000 images collected over 10 years!

My personal favourite...."previous outstanding character", err you are not of good character if you are collecting child abuse images; the world just wasn't aware you were scum.

Yep, "previous outstanding character" is pretty much code for "previously got away with it".

DustAndAshes · 31/12/2022 22:52

Your posts are disgusting. When I and others have shared our trauma here, you think it's ok to play at semantics and rename it. To tell us we're wrong. To tell us that it's "normal" for grown men to have the urge to abuse children.

It's not me who is being unreasonable here. You understand nothing about the reality of this at all if you really believe what you've posted is acceptable.

TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon · 31/12/2022 22:59

Do tell is though how your "viewpoints" about paedophilia being "normal" if a child under 10 even happens to have grown breasts, will help to make "social systems that protect us".

DdraigGoch · 31/12/2022 23:01

DustAndAshes · 31/12/2022 21:55

I don't know.

Mine is men who are late 20s or older who prey on girls who are only just at the legal age for sex and the people who think that is ok, or a million miles away from the ones who are abusing 15 year olds. They are just as bad in my opinion.

Rather than lowering the bar of how we identify these paedophiles we should be raising it.

I really think that age of consent laws need reforming (and not in the way that these MAPs nonces want). At the moment a pair of 15 year olds can be criminalised but a 60 year old can groom a 16 year old and apparently that's all fine and dandy. Ugh.

Some kind of close-in-age rule needs to be introduced that recognises that 16/17 year olds are still children and that 30 year olds should stay well away.

MangyInseam · 31/12/2022 23:01

WingingItSince1973 · 31/12/2022 22:36

@MangyInseam Sexual attraction to a pre-pubescent child is not the same as sexual attraction to someone who has secondary sexual characteristics, which signal sexual fertility. We are animals, and these kinds of biological, embodies signals impact us. That's not abnormal or perverted. Even if it can be something that shouldn't be pursued for other reasons.

What you have written is beyond disgusting. So my 9 year old who started puberty is old enough for these perverts?!! Is that what you mean? Can you please come back and clarify! So many girls go through puberty earlier than say my day. So they are fair game from 9 years onward?! I can't even believe you've sat down and typed that out

I didn't say anything like that.

I said that sexual attraction at a basic level is attached to physical signs of sexual fertility. Sexual attraction happens really fast, and unconsciously, it responds to very basic physical cues. Usually someone at 9 won't trigger them, but someone who is 14 might well.

None of that means it's ok to have sex with someone who is nine, or 14. It means that we rely on the more developed parts of the human brain to tell them what is the right way to deal with this kind of feeling. Because it will happen, we can't change these basic elements of human biology like responding to visual cues or pheromones. So we need strong social taboos, that are consistent, maybe different kinds of signals that certain young women/girls are still off limits, young men need to learn, practically, what to do with sexual feelings that are inappropriate, there needs to be social scaffolding that creates the behaviours we want. Because in any population there are some people that are less able to think clearly, who have less self-control, and so on. We need to make the sense that certain behaviours are not ok as strong as possible.

Telling ourselves that it's abnormal for a male to have a sexual attraction to a young teen just makes it all the more likely that society won't take effective approaches to suppressing that sort of behaviour.

And actually, I don't think our society is particularly good at that. We give seriously mixed signals about sexual desire generally, we don't seem to try and avoid the sexualization of quite young girls, and we don't cultivate the ability of young people, and in this case specifically young men, to resist immediate urges.

Datun · 31/12/2022 23:05

In the telegraph today

Kenny MacAskill, the East Lothian MP and former Scottish justice secretary, said: “Spouting these euphemisms ­simply masks the reality and their ­danger. I very much welcome the ­common sense approach from Police Scotland, though even in commissioning documents these euphemisms should be avoided as they mask the ­reality and hide the horror. The term in whatever context is baloney.”

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