Thank you, SNP et al

[pattihews]

I'm spending a few days with relatives. Yesterday I was taken by the people I'm staying with to an event attended mainly by people in their 70s and over, and most of them very straight and liberal types (lots of Labour Party voters). When we arrived I was introduced to a little group who were all talking in horror about the idea of sex offenders being allowed to change their name and birth certificate so easily. I plunged in and started to gently explain the background to what was going on. They turned off the music, poured extra wine and tea and sat, 30 or more of them, focused on this subject for more than two hours. They all went off with instructions to speak to their MPs and to sign the Sex Matters petition. I signposted everyone to the Break it Down thread here.

Earlier today I took an elderly relative out to three homes to deliver presents. At each of them she spontaneously started a conversation about what's happening in Scotland and on each occasion everyone around joined in — including care home staff.

So thank you, Nicola Sturgeon. There are millions of people who'll be talking about this over Christmas dinner.

Interesting. I wonder why 🧐

Because even they realise that this looks exactly like it is: SAFC

It came up at my Christmas family gathering too. My BIL, not usually one to discuss issues of the day, brought it up in tones of disbelief. However he seemed to be under the impression that most men wishing to avail themselves of the new law would still be having genital surgery somewhere along the line. I put him right.

How did your BiL react to that?

Good for you.

It's always been my belief that if most people knew that these men were heterosexual and very fond of their bits, the entire issue would collapse overnight.

I find it surprising that in all the debates so few bring up the fact that the vast majority of TWs have had no surgery and remain as intact as the day they were born. That is a killer fact and a lot of people simply assume these people are what used to be called back in the day, transexuals.

If we had a competent UK government, the provisions in devolution for Royal Assent to be refused would be enacted in a heartbeat. The lack of protection for prisoners could be enough.

I'm not confident of the incompetent Home Secretary and the others in the cabinet ensuring that happens.

I suppose some have reconsidered in light of recent developments and are now shy about how badly wrong they had got things.

More likely, I think many of those who were very loudly righteous on the issues do a bunch of virtue signalling on popular issues to try and attract peer approval. Once an issue starts to go sour and the narrative starts to stink, they're going to be dropping it fast, because they're not really doing it out of any sense of conviction.

See youngsters at a Pride march. They're really not there to show solidarity for Lesbians or Gay people, and largely have very little awareness of the history of the civil rights movement, historic oppression, political context, etc. They're going because they're pals say it's a laugh, to wave a rainbow flag and wear some extra glittery eye shadow.

Now that many are becoming openly critical of genderism, TWAW chanting slips out of fashion, and many will try to quietly forget about their previous support.

Also discussed this topic at large family gathering on Boxing Day. Many MANY more in agreement that "trans rights" (men's rights to claim they're women and access women's provision) is bonkers - in fact only one younger cousin persisting slightly half-heartedly with the "live and let live" line. Unsurprisingly, it was the sports issue that connected with the menfolk... (Slight eye roll that an unfair competition is more understandably unjust than prisons/hospitals but I guess it's what they know and experience.)

Shared the Sex Matters petition with those who agreed. I can certainly, in my social world, feel the fear of discussing this lifting. We all just have to keep pushing.

It was interesting. We have never discussed this before. He'd already quickly worked out that the law could be exploited by men seeking to access female spaces in order to assault or 'perve' on women. And he was also aware that there are men who get a sexual thrill from wearing women's clothing. But the idea that there are heterosexual men who 'identify' as women but still retain fully working genitalia was one he was clearly struggling to get his head around.
I know, it's nuts I said. And we both laughed. But he knew it was serious too.

Sounds as if you've given him plenty to think about. Good work!

I think the optics of the gallery has made a lot of neutral people revisit their thoughts. I find the label “transgender” makes people think of lovely Hayley from Corrie. When they see the line of thugs in the gallery, juxtaposed with women just like their sisters/wives/mums then the scales fall from the eyes and they see what this is about - blatant misogyny. And of course, the recent news about the 6ft 3 trans prisoner Katie Dolotowski housed in Cornton Vale womens’ prison highlights the dangers of the bill.

At last the tide is turning….

I've noticed that transwomen characters in TV and film used to always be played by men (back when they were 'transvestite' or 'transsexual' characters), but these days are almost always played by women. (Even, in the last season of Grey's Anatomy, a 4 year old boy whose parents thought he might be trans was played by a girl.)

It gives the general public an automatic mental image that is very different from the reality.

It is only very recently that the Scottish press have reported much about it..TV is a no-show too.

Agree. I was speaking to a friend about it. She knew nothing at all about any of it. Her take was 'i have nothing against trans people'. Neither do I, she just didn't understand any of the issues.

Is it just me or does anyone else feel a bit of a shift again with the decapitate terfs sign and the story about another rapist transitioning during prosecution? Thanks again to the SNP for more sunlight.

Rainbowshit · Today 23:12
Is it just me or does anyone else feel a bit of a shift again with the decapitate terfs sign and the story about another rapist transitioning during prosecution? Thanks again to the SNP for more sunlight.

It has brought more sunlight. One of the things that has become clear in light of these recent events is that the real meaning of the Equality Act applying to the protected characteristic “sex” needs to be brought sharply into focus and protected.

Are people on here aware of Sex Matters’ petition to update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex? It has about 74,000 signatures so far but will need 100,000 by a cut-off date in April to have a chance of initiating a debate in Parliament.

To sign and share,
⬇️
www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex?page=1

Just reviving this thread to add more thanks to the SNP.

I think they have actually killed self id in most of the UK (need to turn our attention to Wales next)

The revelations over the plummet in members seen to finally have the attention of Labour.

Pull!!!!

Well, it works for me. Who'd have thought lil' old me, not a mum, certainly not a woman, would be posting on Mumsnet in support of GC views? Certainly not me, lol.