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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Thank you, SNP et al

94 replies

pattihews · 24/12/2022 17:38

I'm spending a few days with relatives. Yesterday I was taken by the people I'm staying with to an event attended mainly by people in their 70s and over, and most of them very straight and liberal types (lots of Labour Party voters). When we arrived I was introduced to a little group who were all talking in horror about the idea of sex offenders being allowed to change their name and birth certificate so easily. I plunged in and started to gently explain the background to what was going on. They turned off the music, poured extra wine and tea and sat, 30 or more of them, focused on this subject for more than two hours. They all went off with instructions to speak to their MPs and to sign the Sex Matters petition. I signposted everyone to the Break it Down thread here.

Earlier today I took an elderly relative out to three homes to deliver presents. At each of them she spontaneously started a conversation about what's happening in Scotland and on each occasion everyone around joined in — including care home staff.

So thank you, Nicola Sturgeon. There are millions of people who'll be talking about this over Christmas dinner.

OP posts:
BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 27/12/2022 09:33

I renewed our daughter's passport this year and apart from posting it, everything was online.

Fully online application at your end does not mean fully online processing at the government end. Or tell you anything about how centralised and queriable their systems are, or whether they are in any way joined up with other government records. (For example, I believe there is some linking between passport and DVLA systems, but definitely not between those and the NHS.)

SinnerBoy · 27/12/2022 09:42

No - they couldn't! The request was for 2021 back! Yes, it's mad - yes, it's all online, all digital, but apparently no-one at the passport office can manage to write a query to see any records with a change of gender.

I can see how they would find it difficult to check the old paper only ones, but not with the digital ones.

Rainbowshit · 27/12/2022 11:08

@Walnutwhipsarenothesame I would love to know for definite, but my feeling is that they have seen how badly voting down amendments that would have protected females from sex offenders has gone down with the general public.

ArabellaScott · 27/12/2022 11:14

YANBU, OP.

Xmas conversations over the past few days haven't included much politics, but the one thing everyone has been in accordance with has been the outrageous nonsense that is 'genderism'.

Relatives that have previously not wanted to know were demanding I explain everything to them, in detail. Much outrage. Much swearing. Much incredulity.

'rapists ensured easy entry to women's prisons' is the takeaway from the Scottish GRR Bill.

Many more signatures to the Sex Matters petition, I believe.

JanesLittleGirl · 27/12/2022 11:21

I've just read the Passport Office guidance for obtaining a new passport in your acquired gender. The PO form doesn't capture change of gender so any subsequent query on the number of such passports would be nigh-on impossible.

RubyTrees · 27/12/2022 11:37

Many more signatures to the Sex Matters petition, I believe.

I think the numbers have almost doubled since Nicola did her bit!

SinnerBoy · 27/12/2022 12:03

JanesLittleGirl

I've just read the Passport Office guidance for obtaining a new passport in your acquired gender. The PO form doesn't capture change of gender so any subsequent query on the number of such passports would be nigh-on impossible.

I can't remember, don't they have a previous / pre married name section?

ScrollingLeaves · 27/12/2022 12:04

MrsOvertonsWindow - yesterday

It's often said on here that it's just a small subset of women who are bothered about this - but the thousands of comments under articles currently in the mainstream press suggest that the support for predators being able to self ID as women by the Scottish parliament has finally woken up the population to what we've been warning about.

I hope so, but the map on the ‘Update the Equality Act..” which shows votes proportionate to constituencies around the country - pale yellow denoting the fewest signatures, to dark red the most - shows a huge increase of dark red and red signatures in Scotland, but mostly yellow in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

To sign and share the petition:

Look up these words:
Petition

Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex

Thank you, SNP et al
ArabellaScott · 27/12/2022 12:22

It'll be 60k by the end of today, I reckon.

Whereareyourshoes · 27/12/2022 12:31

ScrollingLeaves · 27/12/2022 12:04

MrsOvertonsWindow - yesterday

It's often said on here that it's just a small subset of women who are bothered about this - but the thousands of comments under articles currently in the mainstream press suggest that the support for predators being able to self ID as women by the Scottish parliament has finally woken up the population to what we've been warning about.

I hope so, but the map on the ‘Update the Equality Act..” which shows votes proportionate to constituencies around the country - pale yellow denoting the fewest signatures, to dark red the most - shows a huge increase of dark red and red signatures in Scotland, but mostly yellow in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

To sign and share the petition:

Look up these words:
Petition

Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex

Even in England and Wales the pale yellow areas are increasingly changing to orange as the word spreads. The map will only get darker.

💚🤍💜

ScrollingLeaves · 27/12/2022 12:50

Have you noticed how the most remote Scottish islands to the farthermost north and north west are the darkest red?

No doubt it is because their lifestyle of living close to nature and the sheep means they know it is ridiculous to legislate in human terms that a ram is really a ewe.

JanesLittleGirl · 27/12/2022 12:50

SinnerBoy · 27/12/2022 12:03

JanesLittleGirl

I've just read the Passport Office guidance for obtaining a new passport in your acquired gender. The PO form doesn't capture change of gender so any subsequent query on the number of such passports would be nigh-on impossible.

I can't remember, don't they have a previous / pre married name section?

A change of gender application is a change of name application with a couple of additional bits of supporting documentation. The Passport Office checks that the documentation is correct but doesn't record anything to show a change of gender.

JanesLittleGirl · 27/12/2022 12:53

ScrollingLeaves · 27/12/2022 12:50

Have you noticed how the most remote Scottish islands to the farthermost north and north west are the darkest red?

No doubt it is because their lifestyle of living close to nature and the sheep means they know it is ridiculous to legislate in human terms that a ram is really a ewe.

Or it could be that while you don't need to be a farmer to recognise bullshit it does help.

BinBandit · 27/12/2022 12:59

Meanwhile in things that never happened.....

The SNP faithfull bots are out in force today

SinnerBoy · 27/12/2022 13:12

Thanks, Janes.

GloomyDarkness · 27/12/2022 17:48

Fully online application at your end does not mean fully online processing at the government end.

It's not fully computerized as DD1 passport was held up as someone had copies a Date of birth wrong.

She'd entered it correctly on-line all her doc and previous passport matched what she had entered on online form - and at some point someone had copied it wrong to another bit of system - possible as it was child to adult - but it held it up for weeks and weeks and took a phone call for her to confirm the date she'd put in first place. It was clearly a transpose error but not from her - we could see that.

DrBlackbird · 27/12/2022 18:12

I’ve not wholly followed the actual changes now allowed with the updated Scottish GRA bill… are there any summaries or quick links that does so?

Does anyone know the current numbers of the percentage of male sex offenders in the female prison estate?

BelenaConhamHarter · 27/12/2022 18:19

Also up in Scotland having conversations I wouldn't have dared to start six months ago. Also surprised by almost everyone being gender critical, young and old alike.

It's making me brave, we need to be having the same conversations in England too. I'm not going to hide how I feel to protect friendships anymore. Either they're feeling the same, our friendship can cope with the disagreement or the friendship isn't worth the bother.

BelenaConhamHarter · 27/12/2022 18:24

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 25/12/2022 11:18

I'm afraid now the Scottish debacle will need to be dealt within Scotland - very little I or anyone outside can do.

There are 2 very important things people in the rest of the UK can do:

1 Write to your own MP explaining the problems with the Scottish Bill in itself, and especially the problems with how it will interact with non-devolved legislation for the rest of the UK. This prepares them in the long term if something similar is introduced in Westminster, and in the short term you can ask them to ask the Secretary of State for Scotland to use the section 35 provision to stop the bill getting royal assent.

2 Write directly to the Secretary of State for Scotland to ask him use the section 35 provision to stop the bill getting royal assent, on the grounds that it adversely affects non-devolved matters.

Is there any template I can use to do this? And pass on other interested parties?

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 27/12/2022 19:22

Does anyone know the current numbers of the percentage of male sex offenders in the female prison estate?

That exact question is currently being discussed on the Women's rights - general conversations thread. There weren't any specific Scottish figures when I looked, but there were UK and US numbers that might give you a useful estimate.

EfingNora · 27/12/2022 22:09

Rainbowshit · 27/12/2022 02:23

What's most interesting for me is the radio silence from my friends and family who usually post about trans rights on social media.

My cousin is a total Corbynite and always virtue signalling about other things she considers human rights including trans right. Nothing.

Teacher pal who is all right on always posting about LGB issues. Nothing.

Parents of a trans child in my kids year who are always posting about trans rights. Nothing.

I've noticed the same. People who've gone on and on previously but not a peep. I know they think I'm a bit terfy, but I expected? Something? Anything?

ArabellaScott · 27/12/2022 22:11

Yes, the new silence from previously loud trans activists is also interesting.

ResisterRex · 27/12/2022 22:19

Couldn't see anything from Nokes, having previously harangued the government for not bringing in self-ID, and spent a lot of Parliamentary committee time on effectively re-running a consultation that got over 100,000 responses.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 27/12/2022 23:10

BelenaConhamHarter · 27/12/2022 18:24

Is there any template I can use to do this? And pass on other interested parties?

Show quote history

Not that I'm aware of, but there's an open letter from MPs that could give you a starting point.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4706610-cross-party-mp-letter-about-grr-bill

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