Telegraph - Keir Starmer: Pro-trans laws are needed across UK

[ResisterRex]

At first glance, just (just!!) a rehash of his video from last year. Which said what it said. But there's this:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/12/23/keir-starmer-pro-trans-laws-needed-across-uk/

"Asked by The Telegraph about the leader’s comments to Pink News, Labour confirmed that he stood by plans to reform the GRA.

A party spokesman said: “All political parties agree that the process needs modernising. A future Labour government will consult on what that looks like, while upholding the Equality Act and maintaining single-sex spaces.
“Labour has a strong and proud record of standing up for women’s rights. Our commitment to them is unrelenting.”
Trans rights have become a key electoral battleground in the USS_ and are expected to be similarly important in the UK at the next general election."

Do all political parties agree the GRA needs updating? The Tories just made it easier to get a GRC, and they've not said they plan to do more.

Once again the "maintaining single sex spaces" rhetoric. But next to the Haldane judgement? Come on.

Of course. But the election isn’t happening now.

The same as 1997….despite the Tories summer shambles.

Interest rates should peak in the new year. There is still a lot that could go wrong with the crisis in Ukraine and the pandemic surge in China, but if Rishi is able to keep his head down and focus on the business of governing, and Keir is still not able to provide a coherent response to “What is a Woman” or indeed much else, things could start looking very different. Everything may turn out fine for Labour, but I don’t think it is a given. Labour is like the football team I support. Endless opportunities in front of an open goal, but no sign yet that they will put the game to bed.

Would those be the same polls that ask "Who would make the best Prime Minister?" and "Not sure" absolutely thrashes both Sunak and Starmer? If "none of the above" was an option at elections, it would walk it.

Labour were leading by 10 points in 2012 and lost in 2015. Labour's current lead is in spite of their stupid policy on this, not because of it.

Sitting on the fence must be giving him splinters.

There are still a couple of things that theoretically go against Labour - the boundary changes, and compulsory voter ID.

Well, that and Lisa Nandy.

Latest polls since this week's GRR bill show support for Scottish Indie has dipped, I believe.

>Trans rights have become a key electoral battleground in the USS_ and are expected to be similarly important in the UK at the next general election.

Poll after poll shows that people in the UK don't give a rat's arse about trans stuff, like they consistently come last or near last as things people are worried about, though the media would love it to be different and keep people distracted. Not seen any polls from the US on this, mind.

>Do all political parties agree the GRA needs updating? The Tories just made it easier to get a GRC, and they've not said they plan to do more.

They really didn't. They bought down the cost of the application from £140 to £5, but that's just one of many things that cost when applying for a GRA (typically we're looking in the regions of multiple £100s). They also 'put it online'..like woo, big deal.

Demedicalising it and getting rid of the panel would be the priority. The two year wait is annoying, but not the end of the world, though the language needs to be modified ('living as one's gender' is just silly and anachronistic - like here's my change of name, here's evidence of change of documentation and here's evidence of me consistently using it would be well enough).

The wait for a specialist appt means that either people are waiting for additional years (average seems about 4 rn) on the NHS..or having to pay for private.

In terms of political parties, the Tories don't give a poop, but the rest have commitments in terms of reforming the GRA. No doubt that Labour will rest on their laurels for a bit and let nothing happen in Scotland (WRT GRCs) before doing anything.

It's nice to know that I will get one and die with some dignity, but damn, there's far far bigger issues for trans people, which, of course, get ignored

Evilbee. Interesting. What do you consider to be the priorities? And what do you think about women's concerns re prisons, sport etc, and the capacity of teenagers to make such life changing decisions.

A key text in the Heathrow school of management is "Getting to Yes". Too often negotiation is seen as a zero sum game. Understanding what the other party wants and why can be the key to a solution whereby everyone is happy.

I'm simply amazed at the mental gymnastics certain people use to support putting male sex offenders in women's prisons.

Voting for a simple ban to prevent anyone convicted of a sexual offence from obtaining a GRA is apparently nothing to do with protecting people and is a bad faith political move.

Preventing self identified trans women, who are sex offenders from moving to women's prisons is totally unrelated and it is down to funding of the prisons. Doesn't matter how much money prisons have, male prisoners should be banned from being in women's prisons.

Two simple bans in law is easy. But apparently you can't do these simple things because of a variety of abstract reasons.

@EvilBee Why de-medicalise trans? Gender dysmorphia is a psychological disorder (and there may be a biological element to the cause of it).

Why should people who don't have gender dysmorphia transition?

In the time that Rishi has been Prime Minister what legislation has been passed by parliament?

Priorities:

Transition healthcare (give HRT to the GPs and leave GICs for the rest) and trans mental health (I work in mental health and I see more people in my community complete suicide that I do at work and it, frankly, terrifies me). Poverty / housing (tho obv this is a massive issue all over).

Concerns? Like prisons need to do assessments properly, both for housing trans women in women's prisons. There was an interesting article that the Times took one sentence out of, but was actually a really interesting look at the concerns of non-trans prisoners with regards to trans prisoners..err..here:

academic.oup.com/bjc/article/62/4/1000/6370239

Like if a trans woman is not safe / suitable to be transferred then they also must be protected - the level reported rape of trans women in men's prisons is insane.

There's a special level of hell I have for sex offenders..like they should just max out any risk assessment. Just no.

For a little while I did have some contact with Tara Hudson (a trans woman who went to prison for a short time for ?assault) but who got put into a men's prison initially..but she left Twitter before I could ask her about her experiences properly.

It feels like (at least pre-2019) there was a lack of common sense along with poor assessments - like, don't stick Tara Hudson or Christina Ortiz in a men's prison ffs..and don't stick a sex-offender who you are not even sure is trans in the women's..like just look at the index offences..look at their history and start from there.

I could write an essay and that's not even going into other issues with regards to women's prisons.

Sports?

I mean, it doesn't matter so much as we're excluded from so much now, but my opinion was always that if the research for each type of sport, shows an advantage then trans women would just have to deal with being excluded in professional sports, but not trans women who haven't been thru male puberty. Trans men should always be allowed to compete in men's sports.

Excluding trans people who just enjoy amateur sports is a bit messed up - hence why such an outcry from amateur teams - like when you have 2 trans women playing amateur rugby in Ireland happily with their teams..you could have just done it on a case-by-case basis rather than banning them outright.

Anyway, it's Christmas eve and I haven't even started wrapping presents, sorry for essay, but these issues are always going to need nuance, something that they rarely receive

That Labour Women's Declaration is hopeless. They really think they will be listened to. Really? After all this time. It ain't gonna happen, though I'd dearly love to be wrong

That Labour Women's Declaration thread is hopeless, that should say

@EvilBee thank you. Christmas is taking over here as well. I will return when things get a less hectic. Perhaps by starting a new thread.

I believe most things can be resolved by a level of mutual respect and common sense. But in other areas there are real rights and safeguarding concerns at stake. Stonewall's opaque approach of demanding everything and insisting on #nodebate did no one any favours. Political parties especially those supporting the Stonewall position should have done more to insist on proper scrutiny and the balancing of the rights of different population groups. This did not happen, as if all that is required of Government and Opposition is virtue signalling and picking your side.

I am one of many many women who have been shocked and hurt by how little either trans activists or politicians have been willing to listen to our concerns. It is going to need a very steady pair of hands to sort out the mess. Nicola is not helping, nor, so far, is Kier.

Whatever the current polls may say, Starmer's reticence suggests to me that he believes there's a distinct possibility that he might need cross party co-operation to form the next government. If that's correct then I imagine he'll be remembering what happened to Nick Clegg and will avoid making any pledges for as long as he possibly can. I think The Telegraph will have to be a lot smarter than this to get an answer out of him, and I say this as someone whose loyalty to Labour ran out some time ago.

don't stick Tara Hudson or Christina Ortiz in a men's prison ffs

So put them where?

Like prisons need to do assessments properly, both for housing trans women in women's prisons

@EvilBee that assessment should be quite straightforward:

"Should we put this prisoner in a women's prison?"
"Is the prisoner female?"
"No"
"Then the answer is 'no'"

Simple. If a prisoner is considered vulnerable then they can be placed in protective custody or in another specialist part of the prison estate (I understand that there is a trans wing somewhere). Women are not human shields, the answer should always be 'no'.

Women are not human shields, the answer should always be 'no'.

Yes, this. Not human sheilds and not backdrop scenery in someone else's life story.

I think the only difference with those two individuals is that they were trans before the crime was committed. They're probably the homosexual transsexual sub type.

There is now a problem of men charged or prosecuted suddenly deciding they are trans as a way of avoiding sentencing or to gain access to women's prisons.

The solution to banning anyone with a sexual conviction from getting a GRC is very simple (yet people are going out of their way to not support it), and then separate areas to house trans inmates.

Fuck labour.

Why are so many politicians obsessed with this issue? Trans people, according to the government's own estimates, make up 1% of the population. Assuming that's correct, then why on earth would you be so set on pleasing 1% of the electorate - especially at the expense of a much larger proportion who are going to be pissed off about it?

Assuming that's correct, then why on earth would you be so set on pleasing 1% of the electorate - especially at the expense of a much larger proportion who are going to be pissed off about it?

Because they assume that all the people who do Right-Think will find it pleasing. Nobody wants to be a bigot, a racist, or a misogynist, so why on Earth wouldn't they dash to support The Most Oppressed People in The History of Oppressed People?

don't stick Tara Hudson or Christina Ortiz in a men's prison ffs

Tara '7-inch surprise' Hudson?

Which prison do you think someone with a penis should go to?

OldCrone · Today 16:06

Is Tara Hudson the one with several convictions for assaulting women and who was imprisoned for glassing a woman?