Telegraph - Keir Starmer: Pro-trans laws are needed across UK

[ResisterRex]

At first glance, just (just!!) a rehash of his video from last year. Which said what it said. But there's this:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/12/23/keir-starmer-pro-trans-laws-needed-across-uk/

"Asked by The Telegraph about the leader’s comments to Pink News, Labour confirmed that he stood by plans to reform the GRA.

A party spokesman said: “All political parties agree that the process needs modernising. A future Labour government will consult on what that looks like, while upholding the Equality Act and maintaining single-sex spaces.
“Labour has a strong and proud record of standing up for women’s rights. Our commitment to them is unrelenting.”
Trans rights have become a key electoral battleground in the USS_ and are expected to be similarly important in the UK at the next general election."

Do all political parties agree the GRA needs updating? The Tories just made it easier to get a GRC, and they've not said they plan to do more.

Once again the "maintaining single sex spaces" rhetoric. But next to the Haldane judgement? Come on.

@Floisme I've read that they'll need to win as many seats as Blair did in 1997 to get even a slender majority. And Starmer is no Blair. I could be wrong but right now, I think a Labour minority government or a formal left/centre coalition is more likely

v plausible - especially as we’re talking 18 months from now. Just imagine the behind-closed-doors deals that would be involved in a Lab/SNP/LibDem agreement 🤢

"I agree with the poster who pointed out there's nothing new in either article"

I do too.

Thet are just trying to goad him into making a new statement

He should make a statement. His silence speaks volumes.

It's not like he can't appeal to half the population. If you're in the bepenised half, that is. State of this:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/22/labour-targets-new-swing-voter-middle-aged-mortgage-man

Out of all outcomes this is my least preferred

The only good thing Starmer has said is he won’t bend to SNP

Hopefully he’ll stick to that

If they are honest saying single sex spaces are to be properly maintained then I don't care what gender assignment people want to give themselves

I am slightly bemused why you need a piece of paper to state your gender - people should accept and treat all equally independent of gender and it's that that needs enforcing not a formal record of gender

tilder

Because it was an amendment tabled entirely in bad faith, designed for no other purpose than to drag the bill outwith the competence of the Scottish Parliament. Fortunately most MSP's saw straight through it.

I don't understand this. Why is wanting to prevent predatory men from having access to vulnerable people an act of bad faith?

There's nothing to understand, except that the poster is a propagandist, with no grounding in reality. It's not bad faith in any way, the poster is simply ideologically "TWAW & the must have everything they demand."

Defeat from the jaws of victory. The Labour way.

The position of the Scottish Labour Party is clear.

Unless Kier clarifies the English Labour Party position, many voters/women won’t understand there is a difference between the two parties or will assume both parties hold the same position.

Keirs sitting on the fence position is likely to become more uncomfortable when, as leader of the opposition, he is asked to react to the question of overreach and Westminster’s need to intervene over the impact of devolved legislation on National laws. If he retains his current silence, he will have two vulnerabilities. First that he does not know what a woman is, and second that he is in Nicola’s pocket and might do a deal that involves devolution.

TRAs are so twisted by their own cult that they think keeping rapists out of women's single sex spaces is a bad thing.

Beware the Labour Sex Fudge.

Kellie-Jay Keen standing against him in his constituency with her campaigning experience means he won't be able to ignore it or pretend it's a teeny tiny human rights issue for a teeny tiny group of effeminate men who just want to pee.

Just imagine the behind-closed-doors deals that would be involved in a Lab/SNP/LibDem agreement
Yeah if that becomes the likely scenario it might yet swing me back to voting Labour as the least insane of the possible governing parties. I'll decide nearer the time.

Claire Baker didn't abstain. She voted against the bill.

Because a fragile sense of identity needs external validation and a piece of gubmint paper allows you to wave it in doubters faces.

"Modernising" seems to be the latest political obsession. Politicians can repeat the word while remaining vague on precisely what they want to happen.

Then we need to be shouting this from the rooftops so KS gets the bloody memo!

Once again the "maintaining single sex spaces" rhetoric.

I think people need to be careful when they hear certain politicians say this. Those politicians believe that trans women are of the female sex, so there is no contradiction in their minds between having a single sex space, and allowing trans women into it.

A party spokesman said: “All political parties agree that the process needs modernising

It was only passed 12 bloody years ago

That would be an absolute disaster

Why is Starmer so ambivalent on this issue?

There is a HUGE divide inside the party on this issue. Remember the Labour Women's MPs caucus elected Rosie Duffield as their leader the most outspoken person on this issue. The quote from Mail that 50% or more of Labour Women MPs are deeply sceptical of gender stuff is based on fact. Only a handful of MPs will openly back pro-women stance and say what many others think privately.

Why are they scared ? The TRA faction in Labour is powerful it includes Rayner and Nandy. They are fanatical about their beliefs, and some will go to any lengths to silence others. However it is not that big. Most members are neutral. They will go along with whoever has the loudest voice.

At local and councilor level again there are tonnes of sceptics but few open GCs. At the moment there is guerrilla warfare going with GCs and TRas manoeuvring to gain influence and power inside the party. The BIG GC advantage is that TRAs are terrified of open debate and discussion because most of the time if that breaks out they lose unless they pack in unquestioning supporters or have got control of Chair positions etc.

If Starmer doesn't want civil war over gender he wants to win an election. So he does anything he can to avoid alienating GCs and TRAs and triggering open war. Obviously this cannot work forever. At the moment he has the lid on things, but the cauldron is seething with witchy magic and may explode.

Labour Women's Declaration has issued a statement on the article which seems sound which agrees this is the Telegraph trying to trigger internal drama.

"Truly clickbait journalism, rehashing old comments from Starmer & commentators as 'breaking'.
However, the only contemporary official party comment -
“A future Labour government will consult on what [modernising GRA] looks like, while upholding &.. ...maintaining single-sex spaces" - that commitment to a consultation is good news.
Scottish Labour women's committee consulted with women members but results were suppressed and its MSPs' ignorance of key issues & evidence was then shamefully exposed during #GRRBill debates.
The article rightly states: ‘Labour has not given any details of how it would protect single-sex spaces at the same time as allowing people to choose their legal gender.’
But a consultation would have to properly grapple with this legal contradiction, in the open and in depth.
A true consultation across UKLabour would have to offer free speech to gender critical voices, expert legal advice, conference stalls, workshops, open discussion amongst members & elected politicians, published submissions - fresh air, sunlight, transparency...
Bring it on!"
twitter.com/LabWomenDec/status/1606564481110253570

The Labour Party controls Wales, every Major City in the UK outside Scotland. It will almost certainly by the next government at Westminster. It is incredibly powerful. Its future policy on gender is being decided by shady internal manoeuvres as in Scotland. Who will win? Difficult to say. The only thing for certain is the resistance inside Labour needs reinforcement right now at every level. I also think LWD needs to organise better. They are great but they need to recruiting more openly and go on the offensive. The next two years before General election are crucial.

What can people do?
If you are up for a fight and want a party founded by lefty women, and that passed Equal Rights Act, Abortion, Divorce rights, to reflect lefty women join the Labour party and get involved.

If you don't trust Labour and prefer to work elsewhere I can't blame you. However do not pretend that Labour is some kind of TRA dominated party. It isn't - the resistance exists it is growing and will not be silenced. If LWD can get true debate on this issue going I think TRAs in the party are in serious trouble. Remember the chaos inside the Greens and even in the Lib Dems the TRAs are losing ground. We can win this but to do it we need to get political and get people who know women exist elected in Labour and everywhere else. If you prefer to back Tories or another party that is personal choice but step up and get active.

One thing is certain IF we don't get political and retake parties for women and gay people then sooner or later we will lose everywhere just as we saw in Scotland and Spain.

We are not just fighting for the UK. The world is watching if Terf Island can't stop this sexist rubbish then who can? Are we really let scum like Putin be the only people who can say humans have two sexes?

That's not what the polls suggest.

www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

I don't pretend to understand the methodology behind these sort of predictions, but the very many Tory MPs particularly younger ones who have already said they are stepping down perhaps know the writing is on the wall.

We have been shouting from the rooftops. In my case since 2004. Some posters before then even.
I'm not sure how much longer my voice will last. I'm currently very very disheartened over how much my voice is ignored becauseI'm a woman eh
After the shitshow in Scotland and in general over almost 20 years of yelling we seem to be at a crucial tipping point but I'm yet to see any real genuine movement in our favour.

I simply cannot make people see the issues, I think they have to be felt.
When your daughter gets pregnant in prison, you might finally see the issues.
When you get raped on a womens ward in prison, you might see the issues, when you or your daughter have to compete against men and very obviously lose, you might see the fucking red waving mariachi band of flags.
Everything it is to be woman is in our biology. Even if we all had male pronouns and beards and weird penis prosthetics from our arm skin, we would still be clocked as and still treated as women.

We you and our are general terms not individual.

Yes, I see your point: perhaps better to risk having Labour with an outright majority, given its MPs' recent reticence, than have Labour trading with the unhinged Green Party and the appallingly underhand and batshit Lib Dems like Ed Davey and Layla Moran. And Wera Hobhouse looks like she's off her rocker now too in the Commons.

What a bloody mess.

Current opinion polling has the Labour vote at or just above the level of opinion polls in 1997. Unless something dramatic happens there will not be a coalition.

Please do not let facts like these get in the way of arguing that the Tories who have done nothing but denigrate everyone, but especially woman's rights for the past 12 years are angels and Labour are hateful.