What would happen if…

[AnnaTortoiseshell]

We all identified as trans women?

I often think this, and would be really interested to hear views of the FWR women.

I have often said on this board that we should all just start identifying as men. If enough people did it then it would really mess up figures/data very quickly.

Most men don't seem to be bothered about this because it doesn't affect them directly, maybe if it did they might sit up and pay attention.

The meaning of trans is now so wide that I think I am a trans woman by some definitions.

It would help if anyone talking about "trans" could set out what they think it does and doesn't mean. I assume most people mean it as someone who wishes to be the opposite sex, but I know that is not what people with gender identities would necessarily say.

As I've just posted on another thread, as sex and gender are separate concepts I don't know how they can "match" - unless you accept that woman "matches" with female and man with male. If not, then someone needs to publish the list of which genders match each sex so we can all see if we are the right gender or not.

I've thought this. If every woman ID'd as male at work, (particularly in companies with published gender pay gaps), and asked for the requisite pay rises, used the male loos and generally started being more 'male', then would things change?

I think every woman in Scotland should change their name to a male name, apply for a GRR and clog up the system - after all, what does 'living in your gender' now mean? Nothing in legal terms - as was repeatedly demonstrated by the appalling lack of rigour in the debate around this - there is NO way to prove that someone is lying or has made a fraudulent claim because it's all based on feelings and intangible nonsense.

It would make bugger all difference because women's oppression is sexed based.

Whatever we call ourselves, society has no trouble knowing who's a woman in reality.

Perhaps o could get funding to analyse why sone men seem to suffer more mistreatment than others once we have Al become men

I think we should all apply for grc to say we are women. I mean it's discrimination if a transwoman can have a certificate saying that they're a woman but I can't. I want a certificate too! (And I can confirm that I've been 'living as a woman' for quite a long time!)

It would make bugger all difference because women's oppression is sexed based.

Ah but if they were misgendering someone to oppress them based on their sex, that would make that kind of oppression wrong!

I think women in Scotland should apply en masse - just to slow up the applications for children applying.

You should take comfort in the fact that only men need a certificate to declare that they are women. I'm surprised the trans activists stand for it. How's it any different from getting a fake degree certificate from some dodgy website. It's a lie, they know it's a lie, we know it's a lie, it's worthless. Real women don't need a certificate.

twitter.com/LegallyMale/status/1606259888480403456

Perhaps this will be of interest to this discussion. Seems wims are already on it!

What would happen if the moon was made from pudding?

In order to get a GRC, you need to transition, that is, be transgender. I suspect what they are proposing is a criminal offense, when all it does is put male on your birth certificate and exclude you from women's spaces. The idea of a bunch of gender critical people lying on a statutory declaration to prove, well, what exactly? and ending up in prison is genuinely hilarious.

Up pops the misogynist.🙄

@DadJoke I know you are never able to answer this, so perhaps I shouldn't be rude enough to ask you something that you clearly don't know anything about, but how would I identify if I were transgender or not? I assume I am because of some guidance Bristol City Council published recently, but someone - maybe you? - said that was incorrect.

It's a shame that following that guidance might have resulted in me 'lying' but a good reminder that it should always be scrutinised. It's a shame that people just run away instead of clarifying so people can understand.

when all it does is put male on your birth certificate and exclude you from women's spaces
So people who are legally male are excluded from women's spaces? Glad to have this confirmed.

You reading comprehension is shot. Try again.

It's not clear what you mean. Which bit are you replying to, and do you not know the answer to the question I asked?

Of course he doesn't.

In order to get a GRC, you need to transition, that is, be transgender

what does one have to do to meet the “transition” requirement? Will a hair cut do it?

I thought that as trans women don’t owe us (not sure who ‘us’ is) femininity than as trans men, we don’t owe anyone masculinity. Thus we can carry on exactly as we are now, but with a GRC and use of male spaces.
Besides what happened to acceptance without exception? We are who we say we are?

I am laughing at this. I cannot remember the same posters remonstrating those males who lied on the census…. Yet…. Here we are being remonstrated by posters for proposing that some women want the advantages of being male without having to do anything to effectively transition.

Seems ludicrous to insist that women need to be ‘trans’ in some indescribable way that those males don’t to be able to claim to be male.

I suppose I was thinking that, if sex doesn’t exist and being a woman is a feeling, then surely so is being a trans woman. How would anyone know I wasn’t a trans woman? If I claimed to be a trans woman, would that be acceptable?

I think if women claimed to be male, TRAs would be fine with that, as it would be consistent with the ideology. I think claiming to be a trans woman would also be consistent with the ideology (feelings), but I wonder if TRAs would agree. If not, why not?

Hey @DadJoke

"...................all it does is put male on your birth certificate and exclude you from women's spaces"

But maybe I do not want to be excluded from women's spaces. Should I remain a woman, or become a transman, or should I go the whole hog and just announce I have decided to identify as a transwoman?

I was born female. That is my sex. I would like some clarification about how I can ensure I do not get myself accidentally excluded from women's spaces, if I identify as a transwoman..............

DadJoke doesn’t seem to appreciate that you don’t need to identify as transgender under the GRR Bill in order to obtain a GRC. You just need to

”apply to the Registrar General for Scotland for a gender recognition certificate on the basis of living in the other gender”

And this intention is to be a permanent decision at the point of your declaration . Very hard to disprove short of, for example, documenting that you are intending to do it on a whim.

There is no mention of transitioning or being transgender in the Bill and our Shona has made it very clear that living in the other gender is not about clothes or hair, or even a name change, although a name change might be an easy way to prove your intentions as she has indicated a utility bill in a new name could provide evidence.

In the absence of any concrete guidance, it is very much for the individual to decide how they are living as the opposite gender and the point of the process is to stop all that intrusive, upsetting questioning and burden of proof. Perhaps some may find benefit in being legally male. 😉

I don't think that applying for a grc to be recognise as a man can possibly be lying because apart from biology and stereotypes there isn't any difference between men and women so we are obviously all men and in denial currently

Real women don't need a certificate.