What would happen if…

[AnnaTortoiseshell]

We all identified as trans women?

I often think this, and would be really interested to hear views of the FWR women.

Well, nobody can tell you because it's your Inner Special Feeling. Just for you.

Putting criteria or descriptors on that magical inner gender essence of yours would be invasive and prescriptive, when transitioning is a formless miasma of gorgeous soul-shimmering mystery that you are born with but also can suddenly be gripped by.

That said, I transitioned twice since teatime, and I think it might have been too much MSG.

Are you sure? It might just be indigestion.

Whereas I know I'm definitely transitioning, I've never identified as a woman anyway, and it's been horrible having to live as one when I would much rather have preferred to go through life as a man, a gay man obviously as I like a cock or two. the hairs on my chin are getting thicker, I don't have any periods now, I'm currently wearing pjs from the men's wear section of Sainsbury's and I've just taken off my men's slippers. And I've not felt the urge to shave my armpits or my legs since 2010.

Plus I've worked in construction all my life, so can swear like a blokey bloke, make and install stairs and windows, put up shelves and I'm quite handy at unblocking an outside drain as well.

I also fart really loudly in company and announce to people I'm off for a shit.

I'm really looking forward to being a man officially and legally because then i can stop wearing a bra when i go out and everyone can marvel at my wonderful moobs.

Plus i own more tools, and know how to use them, than probably any of the men in my street.

I actually think I'd make a much better man than a lot of the men I know.

They'd be hard pushed to declare mine a fraudulent declaration.

Of course once I've done my paperwork and I'm officially a man if I then decide later that I'm feeling more femme and want to maybe get in touch with my feminine side well then I'll just have to apply again and become a transwoman. Of course I might, as you know gender is such a fluid thing, then decide to change again to a man. Then maybe a woman again. It will be such fun!

I'll just see how it goes as being a man first though.

Arabella, was your transitioning your gender changing from, or to, your innate self identity that you've authentically been your whole life?

In order to get a GRC, you need to transition, that is, be transgender.

But it's all about feels and not anything provable. Non-binary comes under the trans definition - and all that means is that you don't conform to any of various arbitrary ridiculous stereotypes - a woman who has ever worn trousers or taken the bins out or a man who has ever baked a cake or remembered somebody's birthday - which virtually nobody does; so that means that we must all already be transgender and thus have transitioned.

Maybe we should all also campaign and demand our rights to identify as trans-racial - the question has been asked as to why you can change 'gender' (which most people understand as shorthand for 'sex') but not race - but nobody has ever given a reason beyond "erm, because that's not right, kind of".

Are you Asian but you sometimes like bland food and/or don't work in IT? Are you black but you aren't a fabulous disco dancer and/or can't run very fast? Are you white and you're a big fan of Bob Marley and/or own a corner shop? Then you MUST be trans-racial, based on the 'provable science' behind this!! It makes just as much (or as little - I'll leave you to decide) sense as with the transgender-NB reasoning, based on any old stereotype(s) you care to cite.

I just checked out the current application form for a GRC and you need to have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and to have “lived in your acquired gender for two years”. The new bill gets rid of the gender dysphoria requirement and shortens the time limit of “living as a woman”, so I honestly don’t see any reason why women couldn’t apply for a certificate to affirm their identity as trans women. It’s simply wrong to say the new bill requires transition. The requirement to medically and socially transition was very strong with the original application process, but now the medical element isnt needed at all and the social element is a token.

The new bill gets rid of the gender dysphoria requirement and shortens the time limit of “living as a woman”

That instantly qualifies ALL biological females who are 20+ years old - as they have 'lived as a woman' for at least the requisite two years, having 'transitioned' at 18.

So, the proposed bill says the only conditions are you live in Scotland , you have lived in the gender for at least three months, and you promise to live in the acquired gender for the rest of your life. Nothing bars a woman for applying for a gender recognition certificate that she’s a woman. Contrary to what TRAs are saying , there is no requirement to be trans or to transition.

it’s a very strange bill. I don’t think they have thought this through. When civil partnerships were passed in law they explicitly excluded straight couples , but nothing here stops a woman from applying for a certificate saying she’s a woman. It wouldn’t be a lie and thus an offence because it’s perfectly true I’m “living as a woman”.

but the odd thing is if I applied for a Grc showing I’m a woman my husband would get the chance to annul the marriage. Could this be seen as a nice and cheap way to get around a costly divorce ? You want to divorce so just apply for a grc, pay five quid, get an annulment.

and what would the legal consequences of a woman having s GRC saying she’s a woman actually be? Fascinating stuff, someone should try it.

Is the requirement still there that you must promise to live in your 'acquired gender' for the rest of your life?

If so, isn't that clearly transphobic - denying a 'transitioned' trans person the same rights to a legal change of identity that is still available to your 'standard' male man or female woman?

but the odd thing is if I applied for a Grc showing I’m a woman my husband would get the chance to annul the marriage. Could this be seen as a nice and cheap way to get around a costly divorce ? You want to divorce so just apply for a grc, pay five quid, get an annulment.

Interesting.

😂

it’s a very strange bill. I don’t think they have thought this through.

Applies to every single bit of legislation that affirms gender beliefs.

The GRR Bill is about living in the other gender, not the acquired gender:

”A person of either gender may apply to the Registrar General for Scotland for a gender recognition certificate on the basis of living in the other gender”

So sorry to be the party pooper but we can’t apply for female GRC’s, only those legal males amongst us can benefit. 😢

”A person of either gender may apply to the Registrar General for Scotland for a gender recognition certificate on the basis of living in the other gender”

Only two genders?!?! That's not very progressive now, is it?

Yes. Yes it was. All of those things.

Only backwards, in heels.

Yes, you must solemnly declare for the rest of your life.

Three months later, you can reapply for another one.

If I've understood correctly.

I'm cycling far more rapidly than that, there may be backlog transitions piling up and spilling out and getting in a fankle. Not so much gender fluid as gender rotational here.

It’s not progressive at all! Why does ScotGov think there are only two genders.?!?!? We all know there are at least 672 genders out there.

They will need to completely rewrite that bit once Maggie Chapman gets her non binary recognition. Let’s hope they make it clear at that point that there are more than 3 genders.

*Should have said it only benefits the want-to-be legal males amongst us.

If gender is basically what you wear and do, then as a chainsaw and axe loving, trouser wearing woman can I change my gender to a cooking and cleaning loving and pinafore wearing woman?

If not why not?

Oh wait, yes, Alison , maybe you could! It does say gender not sex so what if you said your gender had clearly been male with all the stereotypical male stuff you did, but now you were going to live your life as the most feminine woman ever, could you get a female GRC?

I’ve fostered 2 cats so far, the first one’s vet card said male & the second one’s vet card says female. Is the vet being transphobic or making cisnormative assumptions? Should someone have asked the cats?

Ooh I like that it's better than me having to become a transman first to then become a transwoman later.

I've definitely clearly been male since I was born, I've a photo at about 6 months with short hair a blue jumper and a pair of dungarees on. I look like boy in it. And I've always done the stuff that would be male gender markers.

However if I'm going straight to feminine woman does that mean I'm going to have to shave my legs? It's been 12 years I'm not sure i remember how. And wear skirts? And make-up and go to the hair dressers?

I'm sorry...I don't think I can do it....nope I'm not ready for that.

They must be - that "are" is acting like an equals sign so both sides of the equation must be interchangeable, surely?!

Oops, that was supposed to be a reply to Namechangeasbeingabitch's post: If trans women are women, is the converse true? Are women trans women? If not, what’s the difference?

Can anyone define what a legal male is?
DadJoke, maybe?

Interesting, so I suppose one core difference between women and trans women is that women are never entitled to get a certificate saying they are women, but trans women are so entitled.

Oh well, there's nothing in the bill stopping women applying en masse to be men at least.

Impressive display of gatekeeping by DadJoke here.

Hardly in the spirit of the new legislation.

Quite!