The wokebro hypocrisy over Jeremy Clarkson

[RoyalCorgi]

There's a thread on Clarkson's comments about Meghan Markle in Feminism Chat, but not here.

I don't particularly want to discuss the comments themselves (I'm sure we all agree they're horrific) but I feel myself once more being pushed to the brink by the hypocrisy of wokebros and handmaidens all lining up to condemn Clarkson as a misogynist, having allied themselves with a movement that routinely makes the most vile threats of sexual aggression against women - and having belittled women's concerns about these threats as silly or irrational.

Talcum X has made a whole video about how terrible Clarkson is. This is a man who routinely blocks feminists on social media so he can't hear what they're saying about male violence. The rest of the time he's calling us bigots.

Zoe Williams (her again) wrote an article about Clarkson in the Guardian, but she's another one who refuses to see the misogynistic bile that pours out of trans activists towards women.

They're all congratulating themselves on how progressive and feminist they are. I don't think I can stand it much longer. I don't know if it's deliberate gaslighting or they're all just incredibly stupid.

I had a moment of revelation the other day when I realised that if transgender ideology was being promoted by right-wingers, many prominent figures on the left would be opposed to it.

Because for a lot of people, this is all about tribalism. Right = bad, left = good. They have no ability to think beyond that. No ability to think critically, to weigh up evidence, or to reason from first principles.

One should always remember that the left has often been wrong. The support for eugenics from left-wing individuals in the early 20th century, the uncritical adoration of Stalin and Soviet Russia in the 1930s and 1940s, and the support for the Paedophile Information Exchange in the 1970s.

It takes bravery and intelligence to go against your tribe - something that a lot of people lack, unfortunately.

You are spot on about the tribalism.
But that’s exactly the reason I can support an authors condemnation of clarkson while also hating some of the same authors other published opinions.
no reason why you can’t agree with some of a persons opinions and disagree with others.

No I talk with disdain for the misogynists on both sides, and the sanctimony of belief that people of the Left can’t hate women as much as the Right. Misogyny is across the entire political spectrum.

Do you think Owen Jones and Zoe Williams should address or ignore men who throw shit at women in real life?

Do they ignore it because those men do it for a cause that they both also agree with?

But that’s exactly the reason I can support an authors condemnation of clarkson while also hating some of the same authors other published opinions.

Well, OK. I simply don't believe it's sincere. People like Owen Jones loathe Clarkson and see something like this as an opportunity to moralise about how terrible right-wing men are and boast about how virtuous they themselves are.

In reality, OJ and his chums support a group of aggressive men whose modus operandi is to shout at women, threaten them with sexual violence and, increasingly frequently, physically assault them. Owen can pretend all he likes to be opposed to misogyny but all the evidence suggests otherwise.

I’d prefer them to be consistent

I agree with this.

They seem to be attacking the person rather than the behaviour, because they condone/ignore the same behaviour when it’s someone they agree with.

Not quite the same, but similar how gleeful people were when Charles had eggs thrown at him. Whereas if it was someone on their side it would have been the most heinous act of violence.

Just be consistent, is this behaviour acceptable or isn’t it?

Personally I prefer the misogyny of clarkson (if I have a choice) compared to the misogyny of wokebros like LOJ. Clarkson is a dick but he doesn’t pretend to be a feminist while trying to take away my rights AND my ability to discuss how/why my rights are being taken away.

The derogatory use of 'woke' is straight out of the Trump/Proud Boys playbook and betrays the ever more right leanings of gender critical feminism.

If I try to get into the heads of these people, I imagine they think Clarkson is a major public figure with a platform, whereas idiot protesters are just to be expected in all political debates. There is an element of truth in that kind of thinking, the bad actions of the most extreme people don't define a problem, and to a certain extent are best ignored when trying to talk about the actual controversy. Something published by a major figure and read by millions requires some response even if the content is at a similar level.

I am to some extent surprised that the Clarkson piece wasn't binned before it saw the light of day. He clearly has a weird thing about MM, but I can see what he was trying to do with the GoT comparison - but it really doesn't work. It's too much, you can't and shouldn't talk about a real person that way, even MM who I think is a twat and goes out of her way to try and manipulate the press, albeit largely unsuccessfully.The fact that no one stepped back and said - this is just not publishable, it doesn't work - is surprising. It shows really poor judgement on Clarkson's part too, even though it is always harder for the writer to see how something sounds wrong. I think it should have been obvious.

So I'm not sure that LOJ and the rest are being hypogrits so much as blind, as they have been all along. They have such a focused lens on their worldview, they cannot see things clearly. On;y certain facts show up, and everything is warped. I think that extends to their whole politics really.

FWIW, I don't like the term "handmaidens" either. I think it implies women have to take a certain POV because they are women, which is quite sexist, whether you agree with them or not.

Oh come on, say it a few more times for the people at the back who haven't been brainwashed yet. 😂

Women who want rights are witches/smell/ right wing

Tis the current slur of fashion.

I'll quote KJK: what do you mean exactly by right wing? What is right wing? What exact beliefs are you seeing in action here? Unpack it and prove you're not just generally throwing mud around in the desperate hope that you prevent someone taking a woman seriously.

People are actually trying to conflate Clarkson WITH Rowling - there are a ton of tweets saying things like “bigots and bullies like Clarkson and Rowling get platformed” while also condemning Rowling for not immediately tweeting about Clarkson, even though if she did, people would find a way to make that her fault too.

Amazing, isn’t it! That Rowling gets death and rape threats and ends up somehow being responsible for men’s death and rape threats.

@RoyalCorgi
you've hit the nail on the head. The hypocrisy is nauseating, and smacks of smug self righteous virtue signalling.

I’m sure if clarkson has written what he did about JKR, OJ, Williams and the rest wouldn’t be saying a thing

😂

I don't see any "congratulating." 🙄
Just sickened by Clarkson s comments and saying so.

*also LOJ/Zoe Williams/JOB et al “it’s fine to abuse and threaten women on line and in person if they’re uppity enough to demand single sex spaces and even worse gather to talk about it.They deserve everything they get”"

Never seen them say it's fine to abuse women at all or that they deserve all they get.
Sounds like your take on people like Owen Jones being in support of trans people.

Owen Jones's team got trounced on Christmas University Challenge. It was quite enjoyable.

Never seen them say it's fine to abuse women at all or that they deserve all they get.
Sounds like your take on people like Owen Jones being in support of trans people.

Never condemn it though do they? Like they’ve condemned Clarkson? Never mention it? Never ask for decency in discussion? They turn a blind eye to everything violent done by people whose cause they support.

He called the women who protested the presence of an abusive man in the female only area of Wi Spa “anti trans bigots”, supported a counter protest and did not condemn the violence towards them. The actual real violence. But Clarkson writes about fictional violence and he’s all over it. Pathetic.

Fictional violence. 🙄
Against a real life woman who had just spoken out about how she received threats, and relentless abuse.
You fixate on it being from a fictional show.
I just don't get that argument. So what if it's supposedly from Game of Thrones? So what? How does that make it any better, what he said about her? plus he " hates her on a cellular level.'
Why? What exactly did she do or say to him?

Were they expected to give actual factual answers? Maybe that requirement didn't suit the 'person' in question as pseudo science and other made-up bolleaux is how they roll.

No, I’m pointing out that Jones et al are horrified by Clarkson’s awful abusive words about throwing shit at a woman, but turn a blind eye to men actually throwing shit at women. Just two days ago.

They also have no issue with the horrific written abuse thrown at JK Rowling on a daily basis, which is every bit as horrible than MM has received and worse than anything Clarkson wrote. They’ve had multiple opportunities to condemn that at any time in the last 3 years.

They ignore real world violence, as opposed to words on a page, and they even ignore words on a page if they’re written by people they agree with.

They ignore real world violence, as opposed to words on a page, and they even ignore words on a page
It's not just "words on a page " though. More minimising.
Have you watched the series?
If so, you'd maybe understand that sometimes it goes beyond that.
That it can have real life consequences, and involves real life people, it's not just a game.

You’re missing the point.

When it’s actual violence against women, they’re silent.

No ones commenting on the rights or wrongs of the article, just using it as a comparison to actual violence, which they don’t care about when it’s ‘terfs’.

That poster is defending them because they are exactly the same as OJ and the rest.
They have never once on this board condemned anything a TRA has done and defended them to the hilt every time.
Always conspicuously absent on the Mermaids paedo-type threads though.

Do you mean like it’s more than just a game when people send direct threats to JK Rowling? I am not minimising the effects of the words on MM, I’m asking why the words and actions of trans activists don’t count the same when they impact women just the same.

Speaking of unthinking tribalism...