Adult Human Female: the film

[RoyalCorgi]

Lots of references to it in other threads so I thought I'd put the link here for people who want to see it:

Ah, excellent. Thank you RoyalCorgi

I just watched it. It was brilliant (although I could have lived without the shagging squirrels) Sadly I suspect it will mainly be preaching to the converted but maybe it will speak to some of the be kind people who haven't given it too much thought, or those who are curious to know what all the fuss is about.

I absolutely loved seeing all those people who I only really know of via twitter, speaking and brought to life in front of the camera. They're all so impressive (was I the only one who kept rewinding the bleeped-out bit where Simon Edge names the people he hopes will be brought to account, to try and work out who he refers to?!)

I'll probably be told off for this but I also want to know what Karen Ingala Smith's fabulous lipstick shade is <runs away>

I also thought it was really interesting that they spent a lot of time talking about the homophobia of gender ideology. I think that gets overlooked in the mainstream.

Thank you for sharing OP, I have just watched it again.

Shonagh Dillon, Karen Ingala Smith and Jane Clare Jones do a brilliant job explaining why women need the option of single sex rape crisis services. From about 17m in. My experience is briefly covered by Jane.

Sorry just going to add here a comment a made on another thread, that many radical feminists and GC women are boycotting this film as it is a direct rip off of the work of PP, and has gone out of its way to give a voice to many of the women who have happily been stabbing her in the back. See also the logo for the film another rip off.

Unfortunately once WPUK saw how much agner it generated they went out of their way to promote it, even hosting the "premiere".

The sheer hypocrasy of the women who love to have their names in the limelight assuming the ones who have the right to be the public face is disgraceful.

Too many women are clawing their way up the popularity pole by standing on and squashing the real voices.

Its like all those women who self publish as though they are saying anything different than the women who contribute to mumsnet and other forums, who dont feel the need to do as though they owned the analysis.

I doubt I'm alone in finding this backstabbing and infighting extremely unhelpful, and in fact offputting. Kellie-Jay has done a great job highlighting the idiocy of what's happening but it's ludicrous to claim that the women in the film are jumping on a bandwagon. Most of them have been campaigning on this issue for years and years. As for the title of the film, it's the dictionary definition of woman. KJ doesn't have any kind of copyright over that.

Anyway, back to the film. I thought it was excellent. Measured, clear, reasonable. The speakers were a diverse bunch. I hope it reaches a wide audience.

The only connection with PP is in the title - "Adult Human Female". Perhaps, bearing in mind PP's association with the term, they could have chosen a different title, though I don't think PP has a copyright on the dictionary definition.

Other than that, it doesn't remotely rip off PP's work. It's fairly clear that the documentary makers are on the left, and their interviewees are mostly on the left. And that's fine, isn't it? They are an impressively eloquent, thoughtful and interesting group of interviewees. I doubt whether any of them say anything that regular posters on this board would substantially disagree with. The topics they discuss - the misogyny, the homophobia, the vicious attempts to silence women - are ones that have been discussed here many times. I expect even PP herself, if she were to watch it, would find herself agreeing with most of it.

I do think it's hilarious you put the word "premiere" in inverted commas, Iwant, as if this makes some important point about the iniquity of WPUK. It was actually the premiere - ie the first public showing of the film - so the word is perfectly correct.

Basically this ⬆️

Honestly, as an infrequent poster who has been watching this whole mess unfold over the past few year, my heart just sinks when I read posts about infighting. Get a bloody grip.

Maybe I'm oblivious but I don't see what the problem is. KJK did some effective campaigning using the dictionary definition of woman. The WPUK also do some effective campaigning using the dictionary definition of woman. If anything I saw it as a nod of appreciation to KJK's work.

Its not "infighting" it about having principles.

If you want to contribute passively accept someone's packaging of someone else work fine.

Premiere was in quotes because it was WPUK who suddengly decided this was a way to promote themselves by hosting what they called the premiere.

And yes we all know about the dictionary definition of a woman, but it was PP who made it a political slogan. And her designs.

But as pointed out, they are all "of the left" which isn't what the film should be about. This of course explains why PP wasn't interviewed.

I suspect in a short while everybody will be saying how clever the film makers were to have come up with this slogan and as always happens with the left they erase the true roots and other people's work.

Infighting is not helpful.

No one has copyright over ‘Adult Human Female’ (and you can’t copyright a title anyway).

@IamSarah yes it would be nice to think that, but if you had read the WPUK facebook threads about this you would know it was absolutely not that. They were crowing with delight at being able to promote the concept of the campaign slogan and got a massive backlash.

They were crowing with delight at being able to promote the concept of the campaign slogan and got a massive backlash.

No, they weren't. That's ridiculous. I'm sorry, but this looks like sour grapes on the part of PP and her supporters.

Why shouldn't WPUK host a public showing of the film? It's what they do, and they do it extremely well. They have had at least 30 public events in the past five years, and they have had to contend with finding venues to host them that are prepared to take the risk of harassment from trans activists; they have had to keep the venue secret until the day of the event itself; and they have had to hire security to deal with potentially aggressive activists.

The hosting of the Adult Human Female film was immensely successful, because hundreds turned up to it, and there were no protests. (Note that the attempts to host it in Nottingham and Edinburgh failed because of intimidation by transactivists, so the WPUK London event was particularly important.)

If you don't agree with WPUK's that's fine - lots of people don't - but this nastiness and pettiness is completely unwarranted.

Thanks for this, I've just spent my Christmas half day holiday (gifted from stonewall captured employer) watching.

Puts the arguments across so well, wish I was brave enough to forward. I have drinks with someone I might be able to talk to about this at the weekend.

DH is sick of hearing me go on about it. It's not that he doesn't agree, he just has to listen to me ranting when he knows I need a bigger audience.

I feel like there are a lot of us out there. We should have a secret sign

It isn't nastiness or pettiness. It is about integrity and not being the passive recipient of distortions.

It is about political manipulation, and how too many people just accept what is fed to them

So next time you promote something try and ensure that you are aware of its origins and its purpose (which you gave away by referrencing the left).

I actually have issues with both PP and WPUK.

But in terms of maniputation and lack of integrity this episode has been a real eye opener.

I expect all of you think that Erin Pizzey started Women's Aid. Well guess what she didn't. It was a Black Women's group in Brixton.

I wonder how that happened.

😂That's me and my DH too!!!

I'm really struggling to understand what your objection is, IwantToRetire, or what your accusations of hypocrisy and self-promotion are about.

Let's look at what happened. Two left-wing, gender-critical film-makers made a documentary film about gender-critical feminism. They interviewed a number of people involved in gender-critical feminist campaigning. The interviewees were mostly, as you might expect, of the left, though not exclusively so. Many - most - of the interviewees are people who had worked extremely hard at campaigning on this issue. Some interviewees are involved in Woman's Place UK. Others are involved in LGBA or other campaigning organisations.

None of this is a secret. I didn't "give away" anything by saying the film-makers are left-wing. No one has pretended otherwise.

Lots of people who could have been interviewed for the film - Helen Joyce, Kathleen Stock, Maya Forstater, Allison Bailey and numerous others - weren't. That's how it goes. You can't interview everyone.

It is therefore completely unremarkable that Woman's Place UK would want to promote a film that very intelligently puts the case for gender-critical feminism and that includes interviews with some WPUK activists. Why wouldn't they? What would you have them do - say "Sorry, we're not going to promote this film that puts our argument very well, and includes interviews with some of our activists, because we're not in the business of self-publicity?"

What is the point of taking part in a film if you don't want people to watch it?

I honestly can't see what is making you so angry, apart from the film's title, which I can see might be mildly annoying but hardly worthy of such a hostile response.

It seems entirely self-defeating to argue that this film, which puts the case so brilliantly, should be boycotted. Why wouldn't you want people outside the movement to have the opportunity to understand what's happening?

I'm guessing you haven't watched the film. You're prejudging it without having seen it, aren't you?

Yes me (us) too. We need to reinvent the MN scarf for FWR dwellers. Although purple and green leopard print might be a bit much!

Stop with the fighting, there’s a bigger job in hand to be worrying about who said what and when. In fighting just weakens the cause. I don’t know much about the ins and outs of the argument, I just know that the more people that get the message out there the better. It’s a brilliant film.

I love all the interviews within the film. But I dearly wish they'd cut out some of the nonsense shots in it and let the interviewees' words stand on their own. I hate the squirrel shagging and saucy bedroom clip and the appalling effects that have been put all over the images of newspaper articles and headlines that could have just been put up as images you could actually take in and read. The heavy music and the soldiers/military men are all OTT.

I don't care that some people think it's a steal from PP. No one set of people can own the truth - let's get as many films out there as we can. Well done to whoever made it. It was obviously made on a shoestring but they have corralled a good group of contributions in one place.

@Parmavi0lets and @DameMaud

We need to be brave - don't we?

I'm going to drop a link to the Edinburgh premiere cancellation story and marvel at how women aren't allowed to watch a film in the UK - as though this was Iran, and see what sort of replies I get.

At least a few people I know might let the mask slip a bit.

Good call Belena. ill be doing the same!
Re Parmaviolets suggestion: maybe a snakeskin pattern scarf - for the vipers!

I don't think those who are GC do themselves or us or anyone any good by indulging themselves with in-fighting. A house divided will fall. All people who oppose gender ideology should stick together and work together. I support JKR even though I know she is a Remainer, for example, since that makes no difference to my agreeing with her one the need to fight for women's rights. I doubt I'd like Posy Parker, sinces she strikes me as a right wing USian and I am a socialist, but that doesn't matter either, in this particular fight. Some GC feminists deciding they do not like Adult Human Female (the film) is music to the ears of TRAs.

@DameMaud

Can you imagine if we knew each other

I hope I can applaud this film and wish it a wide viewing, while still thinking that the title, given the lengths some of the women involved with it have gone to in order to distance themselves from anything to do with KJK, was a rather odd choice.