Adult Human Female: the film

[RoyalCorgi]

Lots of references to it in other threads so I thought I'd put the link here for people who want to see it:

It's the other way round. Women had been using 'adult human female' since at least 2004 when the GRC came in. Maria MC used it after being assaulted at Speaker's Corner in 2017 as did Helen Steel in her great speech at the first WPUK meeting later that year.

KJK was able to merch and moneitarise the term because the work of a lot of other women made it obvious why she used it.

Of course people have been using the phrase for years, it's the dictionary definition of woman.

But ever since the Liverpool billboard it's taken on a deeper political meaning. It's become part of the fight back against gender ideology. KJK's relentless promotion of it has made it a slogan that means not-a-transwoman. The t-shirts are seen at every feminist gathering (even in this film!) And it has become understood for its deeper meaning because it's been pushed out there as a response to the faux confusion about what a woman is.

It had the deeper political meaning before KJK merched it.

That's why it has been such a successful campaign - everyone knew what it meant and why the phrase was being used because it already had political currency.

I don't see it as an argument about intellectual property (if that's the correct phrase). I just think, as I've already said, that it was an odd choice of title given its recent connection with KJK, and given the extent to which some of those women have made to disassociate themselves from her.

But if you're suggesting (and I'm not sure whether you are?) that the title was part of a deliberate strategy to 'reclaim' the phrase, then that actually makes more sense to me, although it also blows apart any idea that it was a coincidence.

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. How on earth did you infer that from what I've posted?

I'm saying that the phrase had political currency before KJK popularised, moneitarised and merchandised it. And that was why KJK chose it - because everyone knew what it meant.

It belongs to us all.

How did I infer it? Well phrases such as, 'It belongs to us all' suggest to me that there's a desire to reclaim it. That's all and I'm not sure why the idea seems to have made you so indignant - it would be a perfectly rational thing to do from where I'm sitting.
But fair enough, in that case I will have to fall back once again on my view that it was a strange choice. given the efforts made by some of those women to distance themselves from JKJ.

But fair enough, in that case I will have to fall back once again on my view that it was a strange choice. given the efforts made by some of those women to distance themselves from JKJ.

I don't know what you mean by "some of those women".

The choice of what to call the film was made by the film-makers, not the participants in the film. The film probably didn't even have a name when they were interviewed for it, and I doubt very much they were consulted on it. Once it was made, what were they supposed to say? "I'm not taking part in this film because the title is also a phrase used by Posie Parker"? That would be mad.

Well actually yes, I can imagine at least one of the women who took part in the film saying that!

Anyway the 'reclaiming' suggestion was a genuine response to a point made by a previous poster and intended as a civil discussion. I do wish the film well and there are other things to talk about on this thread so I'm dropping out now.

Well, no-one did refuse to appear in it because of the name so that sort of suggests that those wanting to make it some sort of issue to be fought over are speaking into the void somewhat.

It's not reclaiming anything to say it belongs to all of us. It was never taken away, nothing to reclaim.

The choice of what to call the film was made by the film-makers, not the participants in the film. The film probably didn't even have a name when they were interviewed for it, and I doubt very much they were consulted on it.

This is a very good point.

Btw I had no idea my case was going to be discussed in the film until I saw it.

There's no point, they don't want to hear it.

You're right, of course - KJK cashed in on the phrase in exactly the way KJK's fans are claiming the film did.

But her fans will find a way to justify KJK doing it as no problem at all, as KJK can do no wrong as far as they are concerned. It's not about principles any more, it's a cult of personality.

It's a real shame.

What's a real shame is that there's a group of women who constantly attach KJK's name to words like monetised merched and cash in. As if she's doing it to buy shoes or something.

She reaches the women outside of the academy and left-wing politics far more effectively than academia ever can. It takes a lot of different approaches to reach a lot of different people. Let other women do what they do best instead of tediously nit-picking.

People stick up for her because the spite is so nasty that it demands a response.

I just watched the film. I think the title "Adult Human Female" is apt. The people interviewed described the issues clearly in a dry sort of way. However, I'm not sure who the film is aimed at. The left wing certainty bias shone through. There was a bizarre "not my Nigel" comment about how this was really a neoliberal right wing idea, when, to me, the right wing has held the line more successfully than the left. The lesbian and gay point of view featured prominently, but we heard little (nothing) from mothers. To be more relatable and convincing, this film sorely needed a Posie. I look forward to her film. We need them all.

It was pretty convincing for my gay friend who hadn't really understood what all the fuss was about!

Simon Edge (obvs not a mother) spoke very movingly about the harm being done to children, I thought.

I was struck by how out-of-date (in a good way) the discussions about 'cis' seemed. Thank the fuck we've won that one.

It's a good documentary except for the weird stock footage bits. I hope it's shared widely.

Some of the branding and marketing decisions have been very strange but nobody will care about that in the long run.

unwashedanddazed · "What's a real shame is that there's a group of women who constantly attach KJK's name to words like monetised merched and cash in. As if she's doing it to buy shoes or something."

This constant belittling, reality-denying refrain grates so fucking much!

KJK is producing THE most effective public awareness-raising campaigning materials available. Not just that but they are ethically-sourced and, where possible, made in the UK. She has been banned from every merch site so has to do everything in-house and waste time making sales-pitches on YouTube.

If it was anyone else "that group of women" would be praising her to the skies.

What the fuck is she supposed to do? Take out a second mortgage and give it all away?

Oh, I know, she should just STFU and leave it to the women who care so much about this issue that they spend an unhealthy amount of time obsessing about her and making snarky comments about her hair!

As for the AHF documentary, I don't think we are its intended audience. How much of it was news to anyone who has spent much time on Mumsnet Sex & Gender Board? The Premier and subsequent screenings will have relied on attendance by the converted but it is now free to view on the internet.

cheshirecatsmile said:
"Partner watched it with me and peaked. Everything I had told him he took with a pinch of salt. He was gob smacked especially the lady who was banned from a lesbian dating site for only wanting females.

Partner sat there and said but lesbians don't have a penis? Then asked if that made him a lesbian because he likes , you know natal females. Had to explain that one as well.

He now understands that it's heterosexual men with a fetish, that hard drives need checking and why don't people think it's suspicious that adults are encouraging children to take medications that they use on rapists for chemical castration. Why would adults want other adults to resemble children when their older?

He's now fallen down an internet rabbit hole."

Shineyredbicycle said:
"It was pretty convincing for my gay friend who hadn't really understood what all the fuss was about!"

There are plenty of other videos that are top peaking material and are better produced. However, it might be significant that both the above anecdotes refer to men who "got it" after watching AHF?

Even if not significant, there is a huge problem getting the message over to "the Left" and particularly men on the Left. The advantage of AHF featuring so many "names" from the Left is that it might pique the interest of others on the Left and be shared among Lefties who damn well need to "get it". It seemed a bit weird to me that there was just one token man but that is just another minor quibble.

It exists and, whatever its faults and odd branding, IMHO it would be as daft not to promote it as it is self-defeating to continually carp on about KJK's campaign materials as if she is in this just to sell T-shirts and has nothing better to do with her time.

I think you're right Lang.

I'm glad that the film makers who have been quietly involved in these debates for years (spoiler they're of the political left, hence why they made a film with, um, a political left emphasis) got the chance to produce this.

For goodness sake, if posters don't want other posters to express their views about a particular topic, maybe don't bring said topic up on a thread where it's not relevant?

I can't see where anyone has said that KJK should STFU on this thread. What a strange thing to take from it.

FfacCoffi I know. The AHF billboard campaign was brilliant, the right thing at the right time in the push back against gender ideology.

Totally ignoring the arguments on this thread, I am really looking forward to watching this over the next few days. Thank you for the handy link.

Is the general idea that the title Adult Human Female was used to remind people that this phrase was being used widely before Posie's billboard campaign? So its kind of retrieving ownership?

That link isn't working and I can't see the film on YouTube.

Thanks OP. I lol forward to watching.

I hope this works.

What a good post. My position too.