Will we die out?

[MsRosley]

Saw someone tweeting last night that any rally in support of women's rights is a 'sea of grey' and that opposition to trans rights would die out with the older generation. Given that all the terfs I know are older women, is he right? I'm trying to marshall the counter arguments in my head.

The earliest date for the start of Gen A is 2010 but its generally put at 2013 I believe. I am not sure I've seen evidence of 9 to 12 year olds doing much pushing back yet!!!

Some are genuinely already having WTF moments re: boys in their sports and older siblings who identify as the opposite sex!

This stuff is all over their TV programming (eg Kai Shappley turns up in The Baby Sitters Club and that Australian series about a transgirl in school) but they intrinsically understand that boys and girls are increasingly different from age 7-8 onwards (eg on school sports day the boys are starting to beat all but the very best of the girls) so there is definitely an air of ‘I don’t think so’ about it.
Plus they are increasingly being taught about consent and boundaries (v important due to the earlier exposure to graphic porn via the internet) which is at odds with letting male children into spaces for female children.

Older primary school girls are currently somewhat trapped in a liminal space between ‘Be Kind’ and ‘No Thank You’ so it’s really up to us mums, grannies, big sisters, aunties and godmothers to teach them to listen to their instincts and verbalise their own boundaries.

The final reason I disagree is that no amount of delusion can change reality, a lie at odds with reality cannot be sustained.

@FOJN Yes, I keep coming back to this again and again, and Lincoln's quote: "You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

When you have such intolerance in the group of 18-28 year olds that they cannot be honest with their mates, you know damn well that those 18-28 year olds are not going to keep quiet once they reach the age where they don't care anymore, have new friends or simply enough has been published that the threats of being 'phobic' are empty.

@Helleofabore Yes, I hadn't considered that. The grip of peer pressure definitely wanes over time.

To attend these rallies you have to know people who are in the know. So it’s not surprising that the people who are invited are in the same demographic.

I was encouraged by the number of young women at Filia.

And as young women get older, they will develop the courage and maturity to speak out.

To answer the OP, No , we won't die out.
Women and girls will always be murdered and raped by men and a new generation of women will start fighting for our rights again.

I'm a ray of sunshine today.

Also, remember how much of the TRA output is a projection/ DARVO of their own fears and behavioural tactics. They fear they will be the ones to die out so they have to quash that fear and feel powerful by trying to put it onto us. They try to make us feel their feelings.. but this tells us so much about them! They have no insight into their own psychology.

@BelowTheSalt You're so right.

I echo this. Reading through is doing me the power of good. It's not often I have a wobble now, but that 'sea of grey' comment got to me, not because I'm particularly sensitive about my age, but because I was afraid it might be true. So, thank you, everyone. You've made me feel much better.

There will always be more women to pass the light.

@NitroNine Beautifully put. I'm going to cut and paste that somewhere where I can always see it. Thank you.

I think the words may change.

Someone will invent a name for "advancing the rights of those born with a uterus".

Something I think about is that, whilst there is crowing about uterus transplants and artificial wombs, so GC women will die out, no one considers one glaring point. Even if uterus transplants were possible, there won't be the resources to carry on this way. Some resources are already running low and humanity simply continue to 'progress' because we won't have the wherewithal to progress with.

Missing word: humanity cannot simply continue

Oooh another day another game of spot the ageism/homophobia/misogyny/ religious and cultural intolerance and general enjoyment of being vigorously prejudiced against pretty much everyone endemic in this politics.

Currently reading 'Come to this Court and Cry' by Linda Kinstler (I recommend it, a number of interesting parallels in studying how the 1930s society disintegrated into approving genocide and wrapped it in a lot of burbly word salad on the way). A mention there as to how the very worst murder squads were intentionally selected from soldiers between 16-24, because they were the easiest to manipulate, were out of an education system where they'd been taught not to think for themselves, and were naive and short on life experience to question what they were sent to do.

Age has a purpose in society. And no, we won't die out. There are actually pissed off women from all walks of age, race, ability, sexuality, all the protected characteristics: this is a lie this movement chants to aid the threat to believing in their piety. What will happen if stupid politicians continue to let it roll will be that incidents will stack up and stack up and stack up until there is a massive ground swell of anger and rejection of this political movement. See: Brexit. Ignoring angry voters, calling them names, reassuring each other it's just a bunch of old and stupid bigots, does not solve anything or make the problem go away. It just builds quietly until suddenly it all goes horribly wrong for everyone.

I pointed that out to my MP more than 5 years ago. He's still sitting with his thumb up his bum.

Here to say I know several very young feminists- under the age of 21 - who are angry about Dylan Mulvaney and angry about how women are being treated under queer theory and trans rights for men. One young feminist sent me this from her university in Spain.

This is my reasoning for not being loud about my opinions on trans ideology. I need my job. I work behind the scenes.

Transphobia is increasing amongst young people but it’s just not talked about in school because teachers don’t allow it. I predict trans rights will take a huge step back as these kids grow older - they are, in general, less tolerant of bullshit than previous generations.

DD is 33 - hardly “grey”. She is an active campaigner against self ID, makes spoof videos on Youtube as a send up of Mulvaney (Day 1 of being a boy, Day 2 etc - they are v funny and hard hitting), is the Women’s officer for the Edinburgh branch of Young Communists, marches with For Women Scotland, runs “Gender Critical Autistics” on Facebook and has featured on KJK’s phone ins. Hard to see what more she could be doing!

And your DD rocks Babdoc

What do you mean by “transphobia “? Are the examples here of people speaking out against gender ideology “transphobic “?

And what are “trans rights”? What rights don’t trans people have?

She sounds amazing!

I don’t think it’s true that it’s only older women attending rallies but if it is a majority why is that?

is it because you need to be retired/semi retired to attend a rally during the day mid week?

you need to have children old enough to be left alone during the day at the weekend or evening?

you need time to travel to attend - unless you live somewhere a rally is taking place. I don’t. I work during the day, I look after a primary aged child the rest of the time and when I don’t have either of those I’m knackered from the job and the kid.

how many women are in the same position? That’s why fundraisers and petitions get more interest.

OP, you know how the saying goes; woman hate is eternal. We are dealing with the latest incarnation, that's all.

Women-hate has always been a thread running through language, law and culture - look at the list of insults and aspersions attached to the female sex, and all the ways we've been limited, kept down, and controlled over centuries. Misogyny is a force that is able to twist the narrative - just as abusers do.

Conversely and equally - so has resistance, women's resistance; sisterhood, courage, women's power, and our determination to work for our daughters' rights. It's not a battle that is ever really won, I'm afraid. But we can make small gains, and we do also have opportunities now that many women in history didn't have.

I expect grandmothers have been teaching young women truths they don't want to hear for just as long as we've had to learn to live with the consequences of those truths. Often its invisible work, hidden, unseen and unremarked upon. But just as powerful and as resilient and as enduring as misogyny. For sure.

Tbh gender ideology already seems like old hat among the younger teens. Like something from another (millennial?) generation. And no wonder when you see the stunning and brave representatives.

Yes, this. This is where the Dentons playbook has backfired: if there's one thing youngsters don't like, it's authority figures and institutions telling them what to do and believe. It might have served them well in the earlier years when TRA was edgy and fringe and therefore automatically cool, but now it's creeping out into the open and it's as ugly as sin. And with schools chanting the mantras and lying through their teeth... well. It sure as hell isn't "cool" anymore. The same young demographic the TRA-captured institutions have been courting will be the very same demographic to dismantle this whole charade.

Expect backlash backlash backlash, because the Overton window is going to swing HARD.

We are always being told that when the older generation die out the new world will emerge. Brexiteers were targeted on this, too. The truth is that as people get older they become more conservative (small c - not Tories) and so the young women now throwing away their rights in support of transrights will, at 40 begin to change their minds and discover what their mothers and grandmothers were worried and protesting about. Terfs will never die out, which means that Terfs will win against a misogynist, unscientifice and ridiculous ideology.

I have three children, all early 20's, all GC. My youngest Dd is at a woke uni and all of her friends laugh about gender ideology, very uncool. She came with me to Kellie's rally in Brighton (where I live, God help me) and features prominently on the iconic images of that wonderful occasion. No persuasion from me required, they're just not sheep.