Will we die out?

[MsRosley]

Saw someone tweeting last night that any rally in support of women's rights is a 'sea of grey' and that opposition to trans rights would die out with the older generation. Given that all the terfs I know are older women, is he right? I'm trying to marshall the counter arguments in my head.

Nah. I'm 39. When I was 29 I was a beautiful fool who was all on board with be kind, make room.

Ten years later I'm team TERF. Two kids taught me women and men aren't the same and we don't have equality, like I thought. The Mumsnet radicalisation portal opened up and I read, I learned, I watched. I opened my fucking eyes, basically.

And there is so much more sunlight now. It's getting a lot harder to keep your eyes closed.

We're not going anywhere.

the new cause for the lefties being the economic crisis not identity politics.

I'm not sure about that, because the entire point of wokery is to destabilise and disorient the left and prevent it from fighting on economic ground.

There will come a point when the genuine left will be forced to detach itself from wokery (perhaps when the wokes start attacking picket lines) but it may take a while.

You can't distract from economics when the problem becomes big enough.

Wokery as a distraction has this fatal flaw.

You can't distract from economics when the problem becomes big enough.

Yes, I agree. Which is going to be a shock with millions of working class people move into struggle, as is currently happening, and being confronted with their own union leaders and activists saying men are women. Nonsense like that cannot survive a mass movement.

I'm youngish (30s) and GC. It was having children and the effect that had on my career that pushed me down the feminist path, but those are precisely the reasons I'm probably not very visible.

I have young children, so all of my free time is accounted for and I have a job (which I need to keep) so it's not in my interests to be vocal about my position.

Nah. Generation Alpha are growing up extremely terfy.

They’re looking at the tortured identity boxes that their Zoomer elder siblings/cousins are obsessed with and thinking…

’Nope’.

"Two kids taught me women and men aren't the same and we don't have equality, like I thought."

yes. It was losing my job last decade when 6 months pregnant that sealed the deal for me in realising that it was not just the industry I worked in it was an issue that society had sold us a dud! That for all the wonderful 'empowerment' the celebrities were selling us, we were still being fucked over via loopholes in employment law .

Nothing like a harsh dose of reality to finally wake me up.

over privileged oppression olympics

Yes, this, 100%.

one of the things that ensure this movement contains the seeds of its own destruction is that it's based on oppression but largely populated by the most privileged people in society.

I am just going to put it here that I have found this thread really reassuring. When you watch the batshittery out there being pushed by politicians and their ilk for the last few years, and their willingness to capitulate, it can feel very dispiriting. Next time I feel like that, I'm going to come back here and reread this thread.

Thank you all.

And that's why a alternative right wing party resurgence isn't out of the question.

And why you get all the crap about feminists aligned with the right.

Because they know and are worried...

Grey-hairs are standing up and marching and prepared to be seen and photographed because many of us have reached an age and stage in life where threats of reporting us to our employers or doxxing are irrelevant. We can attend rallies and events on weekdays when others are at work or school. We may have the financial freedom to travel a distance to attend an event. We had to fight for our rights in the 70s and 80s in the days before it all happened on TikTok and Twitter and we know how to hold public protests.

We are also the last generation that did consciousness raising. CO creates a mind that is robust enough to ask questions, takes personal responsibility and accountability; instead of depending on others for approval.

My DIL commented to me recently that every one of her friends is really concerned about the impact of gender ideology on women and girls but they are all nervous of the impact on jobs if they speak out. Older (greyer) women may no longer be financially dependent on their jobs and don't have the childcare responsibilities that make going to a rally difficult.

@MNHQ Why was that deleted? I've had no deletion notice. Was it the mention of sissy porn? Or the dreaded but accurate acronym?

And I'll make the same point. 18 yo aren't all dumb wokesters, and neither are younger kids in secondary schools. 14 seconds on any social media shows exactly who GI benefits and plenty of girls are saying NO. Before they have kids and find out that sex matters and is immutable.

Plus, the privileged white college kids who don't have to worry about fleeing for their lives or prisons will be an even smaller minority as CoL crisis continues amongst other issues in the UK and who is going to have time for white blokes claiming the most oppressed on Twitter?

Not in the slightest. Ive spoken to LOADS of young people on this issue and most seem to have a much better grasp on reality than you might think, but most also feel like they cant say anything and are delighted to discover that they arent alone or even in a minority for it

I understand that its hard; but don't they realise if they don't speak up now, it will be harder to challenge later. And by that time, we might not be around for them to hide behind.

I'm a millennial, complete with avocadoes in fridge. Age 21, I was a full "cis ally" and made a prat of myself on MN arguing for trans rights.

I'm in my 30s now, and my eyes have been fully opened. I know women far younger, in their 20s now, who are already sick of the impact gender identity theory is having on their lives. Our age ranges don't tend to attend events because we can't get time off work/have parenting commitments. We're still writing letters, signing petitions and doing what we can, and we're not planning on dying off prematurely to suit the trans activists.

The ageism is just yet another expression of TRA misogyny; & a demonstration they have no understanding of the considerations raised by previous posters (eg childcare; women’s general treatment in the workplace; the immense [peer] pressure for [female] students & women in some professions to privilege the desires of males over their own needs…).

I mean, if TRAs started crowing that they’re immortal at this point it wouldn’t surprise me, such is the level of knowledge & understanding of human biology routinely demonstrated. (All while, bizarrely, insisting that it’s all very complicated actually, and we’ve got it totally wrong & are embarrassing ourselves 🤨) Taking cross-sex hormones is not a recipe for longevity so when it comes to it, it’s quite possible the grey haired women they see fit to deride will outlive them.

As far as ideas & the belief in them go though - as PPs have noted, Gen A’s are already pushing back against the Zoomers. In England, at least, schools are no longer allowed to teach unmitigated GenderWoo; & the fight is on elsewhere. “I’m being denied life-saving care!” doesn’t play well against people literally dying because they can’t access the care they need; & only gets worse as you unravel “I must have this surgery - but I don’t have a MH problem & there’s no genetic cause… but the drugs & surgery are vital for what definitely is not a choice at all apart from when I say it is”.

There’s no shortage of younger GC women. Admittedly I’m not going to make old bones - or rather, my bones already seem to think they’re old; I always was a precocious brat 😉 I’m in my thirties, so not even that young - but no grey hair. Let’s ignore that about half of it’s fallen out. If/When I do go grey I shall get a blue rinse to confuse The Youth (will need to choose which shades of purple I wear carefully, obviously) & roll riot.

It is sex that is the basis of women’s oppression, not gender. Some women obviously experience oppression on other axes - addressing that is what intersectional feminism is meant to be about; not about centring male people who “identify as” women. Humans cannot change sex. There will always be more women to pass the light.

Gen A’s are already pushing back against the Zoomers.

The earliest date for the start of Gen A is 2010 but its generally put at 2013 I believe. I am not sure I've seen evidence of 9 to 12 year olds doing much pushing back yet!!!

I think this idea maybe a little premature due a lack of understanding of where Gen Z ends and Gen A begins! We maybe getting a little ahead of ourselves.

I think we are seeing some of Gen Z kicking back against what Gen Y (Millennials) started and some of Gen Y actively growing out of this nonsense.

Gen X largely think its baloney already.

And Boomers have seen it all before.

It's an ideology based on untruths & fantasies that's enforced by threats and violence. Now that the uncomfortable truths are finally being spoken, the violence and threats ratchet up as there are no coherent arguments, facts or science that show men can magically become women. As all dictatorships demonstrate, they eventually fail because a person's spirit, intellect & humanity will not follow evident untruths to the limit - even if they were screamed at as babies!

My teen DDs totally get it. They have no time for any of it. They know that a man can’t be a woman any more than a giraffe can be a monkey. They know not to “be kind” if a man comes into their single sex spaces but to shout very loudly at him to get out.

The full female experience and the patterns and onslaught of misogyny don’t unveil themselves until you’ve got some years on you. Secondly I think social media makes kids terrified to say the wrong thing and suffer the self censorship from that. We will be replaced by the young handmaidens as they age. I can’t believe society doesn’t want to tackle male violence and sexual harassment of women but champion other issues so vigorously. If we tackled violence against women there would be a net positive effect on all hate crimes and attitudes. How we treat half the population would determine how we treat everyone.

Plus- my teens totally get it. The toilets, the bizarreness, the hypocrisy, the mental health. All of it.