BBC: UK govt may not recognise a proposed new system in Scotland to allow people to legally change their gender, and hasn't ruled out a legal challenge

[ResisterRex]

From the BBC's political correspondent

twitter.com/bbcdavidwl/status/1600898263330144258?s=46&t=rzUbh4c1nyeBtlrZx733bg

"EXC: UK govt may not recognise a proposed new system in Scotland to allow people to legally change their gender. They're also not ruling out a legal challenge.

This could could hugely complicate matters for anyone changing gender in Scotland and then moving elsewhere in UK (1/5)

New process in Scotland will make easier to obtain a gender recognition certificate. UK Gov source said "absolutely" possible rest of UK won't recognise Scot certificates

Source said it's "test case scenario" of how Holyrood bill could "undermine Westminster competencies". 2/5

Same source told me that Scottish ministers wanted to paint Scotland as a "haven of inclusivity" in comparison to a "nasty Westminster".

Kemi Badenoch (equalities minister) has written to Scot Gov expressing concerns about bill 3/5

Scot Gov spokes said Ms Badenoch was responding to letter sent by Scot Gov in Oct "setting out relevant policy considerations for the UK Government, undertaking to work constructively on cross-border issues, and offering to meet."

Scot Gov say happy to meet Ms Badenoch 4/5

This legislation looks set to be passed by MSPs this month.

It's been controversial in Scotland, and looks like some of that controversy could shortly spill over into cross-border issues. 5/5"

Completely agree. I don’t see how it benefits anyone with any good intentions to make it easier to falsify birth records. Even the person requesting the change. How do they find peace living a lie? Even if it’s ‘only admin’ they surely know it’s not actually true?

Isn't Sturgeon counting on something like this though. I am not saying it shouldn't happen, in fact, bring it on! But the PR opportunity to portray this as Westminster interference AGAIN, will be music to any who are entrenched in seeking independence at all costs.

I don't think it will, Helleofabore. The general public don't support this bill, by quite some margin. So if anything, it's going to make it look like WM saving Scotland.

Then again, if you are safely ensconced in a bubble surrounded by Yessers, you could spin that story, I suppose.

I'm wondering if the SNP aren't spoiling for a fight with Westminster. It seems a bit of a strange hill to die on. If it is the case, we might discover just how popular self I'd actually is in Scotland. If it's more or less popular than perceived interference from the Sassenachs.

www.writetothem.com/

So easy to write to your MSPs! Just add your postcode!

You can send a one-liner asking for a pause or a vote against the GRR bill.

Express Twitter poll:

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/gender-recognition-act-snp-poll-26031337

90 per cent said they opposed

& Panelbase poll found that as much as 71 per cent of Scots opposed the SNPs reforms

Can't find that specific poll directly, here's another report on it:

'The poll of over 1,000 Scottish adults, conducted by Panelbase on behalf of For Women Scotland, found that 71 per cent believed people wishing to change legal sex should be assessed by a medical professional first, with only 29 per cent in favour of self-identification.'

www.christian.org.uk/news/more-polls-show-most-scots-oppose-gender-self-id-plans/

Ah, it's presumably the one commissioned by Wings Over Scotland:

wingsoverscotland.com/voting-for-people-who-hate-you/

Survation Poll:

'being supportive of transgender self-expression is not the same as supporting self-declaration for legal gender recognition'

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2021/12/14/polling-shows-being-supportive-of-transgender-self-expression-is-not-the-same-as-supporting-self-declaration-for-legal-gender-recognition/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/most-scots-are-opposed-to-gender-self-id-poll-suggests-q0qzkjqnf

www.holyrood.com/news/view,only-a-fifth-of-scots-back-plans-for-selfid-transgender-laws

For balance, something that claims to debunk the For Women Scotland Panelbase poll:

theferret.scot/gender-recognition-act-self-identification-fact-check/

Sorry, I've got confused - there are two Panelbase polls, one from ForWomen Scotland, one from Wings Over Scotland.

Here's a clear and useful summation:

forwomen.scot/04/10/2022/public-opinion-polls/

Scottish ministers wanted to paint Scotland as a "haven of inclusivity" in comparison to a "nasty Westminster".

<falls about laughing>

Oh God. #missionfail

Westminster looks moderate, sane and the one remaining hope for women and homosexual people compared to Scotland as a totalitarian, misogynist bunch of utter nutjobs who don't seem to be able to see a train wreck in progress.

Come on Westminster, shoot this down. No destroying the rights of 50% of the population on a sexed basis while pretending anyone ever actually 'changes sex'.

Just done this. Thanks for the link it works well.

Am I the only one who sees the word "inclusion" and knows immediately that I'm excluded? I'm a tad pissed off at being excluded from humanity in Scotland just for the crime of being female.

You're welcome! It's a brilliant site.

I can't believe I missed the nationalist politics in this. Everything she does is to further her case for devolution. Us and them. We're progressive and liberal, they're old fashioned and bigoted. They will interfere in our politics and prevent us from implementing our laws.

FFS. I loathe the way she does politics. It's so divisive. How dare she throw women and girls under a bus to try to further her political agenda.

She won't back down because that would look like she is capitulating to Westminster.

Wings Over Scotland's analysis is that NS and the SNP don't want independence. They get good salaries, pensions, power. So long as they stay part of the union - achieving indie would render their existence defunct. But their political narrative consists almost entirely of railing against WM.

So - the Scotgov foster divisiveness, but don't actually do much to push independence, just try to keep the country in a constant state of resentment and powerlessness.

(IDK if I fully agree, tbh, but that's what a large proportion of pro independence commenters have been saying for a while).

That would be even more poisonous. How foul and self serving. Even if only partly true.

Latest. "Nothing is off the table:

Ministers threaten legal action over fears Nicola Sturgeon’s gender bill could lead to ‘trans tourism’

archive.ph/2022.12.09-201342/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/12/09/ministers-threaten-legal-action-fears-nicola-sturgeons-gender/

"The Attorney General’s office is currently drawing up legal advice for the UK Government on the implications of the new legislation on the union, The Telegraph understands.
Ministers are currently studying various avenues, including a possible legal challenge against the measure. They are also looking at whether the UK Government could refuse to recognise the Scottish gender recognition certificates.
“It is pretty unprecedented to have a devolved administration potentially alter UK wide processes and structures,” a government source said.
“The SNP’s political purpose is very clear - it is to undermine the union. There is legal advice coming in on this, we are exploring all the different possibilities and options. Nothing is off the table.”"

This seems pointless, unless orchestrated to allow the SG a face-saving exit from the Bill:

Call for summit on self-ID change

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d7063f16-78d3-11ed-8f77-a37cd0bbbd4a?shareToken=f5022676d8830efad8a5dc13d14fabcf

There's no dace saving possible. Women know now what the Scottish govt think of them. Its going to take a long bloody time before I forget.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-is-damaging-womens-faith-in-politics-7m9p8s3ck

Can't read it! But Rachael Hamilton has been superb on this issue, so good to see her in the Times.

Here you go:

Nicola Sturgeon is damaging women’s faith in politics

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c90c692e-78b2-11ed-8f77-a37cd0bbbd4a?shareToken=c5676b69ab61b062fa23276ec6ffc5cc

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c90c692e-78b2-11ed-8f77-a37cd0bbbd4a?shareToken=bad3d1d0b96788f7ddb5300a516a4f49

Share token 😊

Thank you for the share tokens. I am willing for the SNP to be offered any face-saving exit from this dangerous mess of a Bill. So much energy wasted on ‘no debate’.

Thanks so much, ResisterRex and Clymene!