BBC: UK govt may not recognise a proposed new system in Scotland to allow people to legally change their gender, and hasn't ruled out a legal challenge

[ResisterRex]

From the BBC's political correspondent

twitter.com/bbcdavidwl/status/1600898263330144258?s=46&t=rzUbh4c1nyeBtlrZx733bg

"EXC: UK govt may not recognise a proposed new system in Scotland to allow people to legally change their gender. They're also not ruling out a legal challenge.

This could could hugely complicate matters for anyone changing gender in Scotland and then moving elsewhere in UK (1/5)

New process in Scotland will make easier to obtain a gender recognition certificate. UK Gov source said "absolutely" possible rest of UK won't recognise Scot certificates

Source said it's "test case scenario" of how Holyrood bill could "undermine Westminster competencies". 2/5

Same source told me that Scottish ministers wanted to paint Scotland as a "haven of inclusivity" in comparison to a "nasty Westminster".

Kemi Badenoch (equalities minister) has written to Scot Gov expressing concerns about bill 3/5

Scot Gov spokes said Ms Badenoch was responding to letter sent by Scot Gov in Oct "setting out relevant policy considerations for the UK Government, undertaking to work constructively on cross-border issues, and offering to meet."

Scot Gov say happy to meet Ms Badenoch 4/5

This legislation looks set to be passed by MSPs this month.

It's been controversial in Scotland, and looks like some of that controversy could shortly spill over into cross-border issues. 5/5"

I don't know what all this changing "gender" is about. The Scottish Government want to legislate that people can change sex by wishing it.

I don't believe there's been any clarity about how long someone has to have been resident in Scotland to become eligible for some birth certificate jiggery pokery. Nothing about the wider implications for the rest of the UK.

UK govt may not recognise a proposed new system in Scotland to allow people to legally change their gender.

I'm wondering how this would work in practice. The only use for a GRC is to use it to apply for a falsified birth certificate (+ marriage or civil partnership certificate where applicable).

If someone was born / married in England then the UK govt could refuse the application for the falsified certificate.

But if they were born / married in Scotland then they would presumably just be issued with the new certificates anyway and it's difficult to see what the UK government could do about that.

As they say, this would "undermine Westminster competencies" because it effectively forces devolved Scottish law on the rest of the UK.

WE WOUD JIST NEED A TRANS-BORDER AT GRETNA

it effectively forces devolved Scottish law on the rest of the UK.

Do we think this is one of the reasons Nicola Sturgeon is so rabid for it? Gets her a foot in the door for Scottish independence?

The government did stop the Scottish hate crime law from being part of the Online Safety Bill by some mechanism I don't really follow but is on the front page here:

freespeechunion.org

It happens - now - to be GRCs. But maybe it could be any area of law where it would be undemocratic as a change in one of the nations ends up being a change in the others.

I've been waiting for this nonsense to be quoshed as 'ultra vires' because of its impact upon other parts of the UK and the clash with the Equality Act. I don't know why the Tories are so scared of standing up to the SNP right at the very beginning of their dumb proposals.

Scottish children are UK citizens who deserve protection from these potential legal abuses.

It's a concern for being able to trick PVG checks and female spaces. I'm really worried. We have been reduced to a costume.

Dark times when we’re looking to the Tories at Westminster to protect women’s rights.

The whole thing is a miscalculation by Sturgeon to keep the Greens on board. If the ultimate goal is independence, I suspect intervention from Westminster is more likely to be welcomed than derided. It's probably the only issue where that would be the case. SelfID by stealth is starting to backfire in Ireland. The same will happen in Scotland .

Now an article on the BBC:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63909309

To maximise the damage to the ScotGov, perhaps?

Interesting that the BBC article mentions ScotGov planning to "shorten the timescale" for people wanting a GRC, but says not a dicky bird about them also wanting to remove the only genuine restriction on who can get one. 🤔

The timescales involved are, to an extent, neither here nor there in the greater scheme of things - and the vagueness around what "living as" the desired "gender" means is enough to make that requirement pretty meaningless and unenforceable. But currently there is ONE specific and (relatively) objective requirement that MUST be met to qualify for a GRC, which is having a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria. The removal of this requirement in the ScotGov bill - the only one which provided at least a modicum of restriction on who can, eventually, get one - is surely one of the biggest, if not the biggest change from the current process, and changes the target population of the Act from "only people with gender dysphoria who feel they need to transition to resolve it" to "literally anyone who's old enough and says the right words", but this change is not mentioned at all.... strange, hmmm?

good point. There's been LOTS said about the time scale. Fuck all about the doctors.

Transborders are borders!

One might occasionally get the idea that they didn't always think things through thoroughly before saying yes.

The Times. With parts of the letter from Kemi, quoted:

SNP’s self-identity bill could ‘harm women’s rights in England’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2c48bf6c-7749-11ed-be91-363346a310de?shareToken=46198a89c4d28d0e64f3b7708478cbc2

Ghe opening paragraph of the Times article is a much more honest, accurate summary of the Scottish legislation than the BBC’s:

UK ministers have called on Nicola Sturgeon to scrap plans to let Scottish people “self-declare” as the opposite sex over fears it could lead to “legal chaos” and undermine women’s rights in England. Under legislation expected to be passed by the Scottish parliament before Christmas, people over the age of 16 will be able to apply for a birth certificate with their new sex within six months without a gender dysphoria diagnosis.

I agree.

"New sex"

Just say it out loud to yourself. New. Sex. You can't change sex. It's completely mad. I'm very much against what this amounts to, which is falsifying records and historical revisionism.

I very much hope Westminster does take ScotGov to court - it's be a nice change from women having to fund court cases to defend their rights...

I actually hope Westminster will clip the psychopaths wings and slam this particular gate shut for all time.
We've had the named person debacle, the hate crime shenanigans and now the biggest attack on females rights in living memory, and none of them have ever listened to scottish women and men who raise concerns. I'm so sick of the whole lot of them. I'm gutted that the country I as once proud of has revealed itself to be so unthinking and uncaring under the surface. We have the highest drug deaths in Europe. In Europe. We're top of the chart for alcohol related deaths in the UK. Why not aim to be the top scorer for femicides too, huh?

Exactly this.

Has everybody in ScotGov lost their minds?

@Baldieheid I know how you feel. I'm ashamed of my country now as well. I don't know how these politicians can live with themselves and the decisions they make. Presiding over a country with huge drug and alcohol problems; damage to our education system that makes it no longer fit for purpose; and pretending scandals like the ferries just didn't happen. And instead of sorting any of this they focus on passing laws that they admit will result in abuse of women and children.

I'm wondering how many of our msps have drug or alcohol problems themselves.
It's more pleasant to imagine that than them walking us down a road to hell with total awareness of what they're doing.