Women's rights general conversations

[Kucingsparkles]

This is an experimental thread, all input much appreciated!

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Right, bring on the flames or flowers! <cowers>

I won't vote Labour until this shit stops and if that's never then so be it, I'll spoil my ballot. As far as I'm concerned the Labour Party is finished.

Sad thing is, the country is in a state, the NHS is on its knees, and in many ways a Labour govt is very much needed. I've never been a Starmer fan, but I'd rather have him than the Tories. But if Labour can't get this most basic thing right, they don't deserve support. And the position of senior Labour women MPs (including my own) is very disappointing.

I live in a Tory safe seat and my MP is a waste of space who just does what he's told. Unless there's a photo opportunity, he's never seen.

I was thinking about the other place this morning. There is a long-running multi-iteration feminism thread there, and a similar one on Scotland. So, while this legal shambles has been parading through the Scottish Parliament (and with the potential for a major constitutional crisis as a result), the pair of those important threads have stood aloof, Three Wise Monkeys in an Ivory Tower. As the philosopher, Eric Cartman (whom I far prefer to Butler) would say: Weak, dude.

Actually that's not quite fair - it's not the fault of those two threads as such, the whole place has stood aloof, or gagged, it's just that those threads would be the natural venue for a conversation if the world hadn't lost its mind.

Gah, sorry - didn't mean to quote that post! I'd been going to reply to it saying "sounds exactly like my constituency" and then got sidetracked in adding to my previous one.

I think we're all on the same page there, bnbn.

duc748

In the past I've banged on at the Old place about how everyone should vote, and spoiling ballot papers was rubbish.

It's with a heavy heart that I contemplate it. Unless there's a decent independent, it's what I'll need to do; it's a Labour safe seat, anyway. I first voted, in the local council elections, not long after I turned 18. I've missed a couple, being away at sea, but otherwise, I've always voted.

And even worse, I think we need Labour to reduce the harm to the NHS.

I'm just the same, Sinner, safe Labour seat.

Hello, I’ve lurked for a while, joined up thread , and want to say two things -
firstly, Thank God for this thread and this space. It is unbelievably important for women to have this discussion (largely) uncensored. I’ve felt deeply uncomfortable with these developments for some time and now I’m furious.
Secondly - I talk to DH about this and he gets it (he’s always been feminist). He had a conversation in the pub last night with a close mate, who also got it completely (“there goes 40 years of hard won women’s rights” - I think Mrs Friend is one of us) - but I do think the GBP are, as you say, alive to the dangers of this flimsy web of deception and can see straight through it - but have had no opportunity to comment or participate.

I also live in a safe Labour seat, in Wales. I hope to God the Senedd don’t go mad as well.

Also - what the hell is wrong with - you’re a woman and you’re a man and you know what? You can live however you want, wear whatever you want, shag whoever you want, do whatever job you want, express your sexuality however you want… you don’t have to say you’re the opposite just to get to do the things you think the opposite sex has a monopoly on…

except.. that would mean equality, and opportunity, and tolerance, and truly fluid gender roles (woman engineer, male nurse), and no one giving a fuck about it. And it would mean living in a world where men didn’t deliberately want to predate upon women when they are at their most vulnerable (hospital, refuge, prison) without getting caught.

I’m so angry.

Can I share some bigoted thoughts I’ve been having?

I know that hospital wards have been mentioned, but I’m particularly concerned about psychiatric wards and I haven’t yet come across a discussion about this specifically.

I was an inpatient on a psychiatric ward when I was very unwell with depression. They are single-sex. Many women who are in there are, as you can imagine, extremely vulnerable. Many women are there because they have been traumatised by sexual abuse, rape and/or domestic violence. Many women are there against their will and have no option to leave because they’re detained under section. Many women are incapacitated from sedating medications. Some are practically unconscious from antipsychotic injections, some are catatonic. Bedroom doors can’t necessarily be locked from inside, and sometimes the door needs to be left open so staff have easy access should you be a suicide risk. Sometimes you are locked out of your room to encourage socialising. Toilet and showerroom doors are either absent or shaped in such a way that someone can see over the top of them, to ensure you aren’t self harming. Staff are sometimes absent, either because they’re in handover or because they’re all caught up with a patient who is harming themselves.

I can’t tell you how distressing I would have found it to have been locked up, against my will, mentally unwell, incapacitated by sedatives, with mentally unwell men. I really don’t care if some people think this makes me a hateful bigot. I would encourage them to try it out for themselves.

That is the absolute definition of needing a safe single sex space. Why can’t people understand that?!

That reminds me of this horrific incident.

metro.co.uk/2018/01/14/woman-who-feared-men-accused-of-transphobia-after-objecting-to-hospital-room-with-trans-woman-7227597/

And of course, the notorious Karen White, who was convicted of sexual assaults in a women's prison, was in prison in the first place because he'd raped a woman on a psychiatric ward.

It was reading the Guardian article about Karen White, in which he is consistently referred to as she, that made me think the world’s gone mad.

I do think people get it. At least people over 30… I had a conversation with ex colleagues recently - some of whom had been in HR - were all were uneasy with the direction of travel and the Stonewall polemic. The women in the group got it straight away; the men asked what the problem was, and when we we explained (males with no surgery, only a piece of paper, in places like prison, etc) to be fair straight away they said Oh, yes, I see what you mean. But most of the public don’t hear about it and this is all taking place over their heads.

@CyanCyan

And of course I doubt one in a thousand, men or women, would disagree with you, or call you bigoted. But, for better or worse, if the problem is that the issue is insufficiently understood, it looks like that may change soon, because events.

Perhaps I should c&p Cyan's post and send it to Lisa Nandy.

Please feel free to use it any way you like @duc748, perhaps I should send it to my Labour MP because I feel this particular issue isn’t being represented enough.

I wonder if anyone who thinks my concerns are bigoted or trivial because they’re part of the ‘it will never happen’ or the ‘it wouldn’t bother me’ brigade would be happy for their daughters to be on a mixed-sex psychiatric ward. I can’t stress how frightening a women-only ward can be at times, let alone adding penises into the equation.

I spoiled my vote at the local elections in May. I had heard that the candidates get to see every spoiled ballot, so I wrote a bit of an essay. It was something like:

"I would rather poke out my own eyesthan vote Conservative, but while Labour, LibDems and Greens continue to pretend that men are women, I will not vote for any of them "

Just wanted to say thank you for posting that.

Exactly this!

And that is an excellent setting out of that particular problem, Cyan. We're probably having elections here before too long, so I shall be sending questions on that to all the main candidates.

@CyanCyan

I'll double check how I feel about that tomorrow in the cold light of day, but yes, I think I might well do that. I can add at the same time that she won't be getting my vote whilst Labour's policy stays as it is. But now that the issue is belatedly on the Guardian's front page (I noticed earlier in the corner shop), I think perhaps the policy may change.

Oh, yes - I came here to post the latest Met police thing: unjustified strip search, allowed men to observe, given warning but kept job. twitter.com/AVintenAuthor/status/1605962727406575617?t=SUtQUIWLBe8Y9sIqneQInw&s=19

Tory safe seat here. My MP will probably fall whichever side his career is safest on.

Tory safe seat here. My MP will probably fall whichever side his career is safest on.

Ditto here, except that my MP is 79 years old and no longer gives a shit, beyond converting his knighthood into a seat in the Lords. He only ever answers emails if they begin along the lines of "Dear Sir Thingy, I was just so hugely impressed by what you said about X, I so agree!" and continue "Oh, and by the way, what do you think about Y? I am inclined to think Z ... what do you think?" The response is always "Thank you for for kind message." Full stop.

All emails not beginning with a compliment get an auto-reply saying that he can only respond to emails from constituents who state their name, address, phone number and (arf!) email address at the top of the message. You get this even if you have done so.