Taxpayers should pay £40 million for trans men to have penises fitted abroad to bypass NHS waiting lists

[inkjet]

apple.news/AOPrr5ERrTlOl2lwYl1lM3g

It’s an LBC article I saw on Apple News.

“Some 7.1 million people were on the waiting list in October, with 400,000 waiting for more than a year. Mr Brown said he understood that his group’s demands could seem outrageous in this context.”

Yes, exactly. Or it's a rite of passage.

Seeing how complicated the surgery is, I'm amazed that it ever goes right.

Couldn't agree more. I used to think there was a place for gender reassignment surgery for a tiny minority of adults with persistent and crippling gender dysphoria, but no longer. Not on the NHS. Dangerous, very low clinical success rate, not effective at treating dysphoria. If people want to fund it themselves, so be it, although I think it should be banned altogether for anyone under 25.

a nonbinary

What the hell did they need a penis for?

That'll teach me to read the full thread...

Having read the links provided by@PurgatoryOfPotholes why would the nhs even want to open themselves up to the legal cases this is going to cause to happen, because let's be honest very very few of the women having these ops are going to be happy with the end result.

It's not a quick in and out just rest for a week then everything will be fine type op.

And I'd bet money the same girls wanting this are the same ones who parents are still buying them liquid paracetamol because they don't like swallowing tablets, and the same ones that go all faint at the thought of a blood test or a covid swab.

The descriptions from Scott and Gabriel are horrifying, and I think if that sort of detail were part of the mainstream conversation an awful lot of people would start thinking much harder about all of this.

The trouble is that to find those stories, you have to go looking. General articles that form the basis of the public discourse tend to use language much more like the piece in the OP. Having a penis 'fitted' or evern 'surgically attached' sounds so easy. Clean, simple, just clip it on and away you go.

And if it's simple to fit - like a shoe, or at most like a prosthetic leg - then it's easy to assume it is also simple to undo if someone changes their mind. So why worry if young people are rushing into it?

The framing directs the conversation down entirely the wrong path.

This.

The taxpayer should not be funding surgery for transpeople, especially as the surgery takes a healthy body and replaces it with a body that will have health problems for life.

The descriptions are the stuff of nightmares

The trouble is that to find those stories, you have to go looking. General articles that form the basis of the public discourse tend to use language much more like the piece in the OP. Having a penis 'fitted' or evern 'surgically attached' sounds so easy. Clean, simple, just clip it on and away you go.

The KiwiFarms website has done a lot of good work on putting together info and photo evidence of the often horrific outcomes and horribly high rates of failure. Of course "monitors" got the site completely closed down; it's now up and running again.

Sorry binturong, the first paragraph was meant to be a quote from your post.

Photos of young women's arms with the skin flayed off were banned by HQ.

TRAs were desperate for the public not to see them.

And HQ agreed. On a parenting website.

Even though I've read Scott's and Gabriel's articles before, seeing the descriptions again has just reawakened the horror. But!!! The public need to know more about this, not less. More descriptions, more photos.

Binturong

And if it's simple to fit - like a shoe, or at most like a prosthetic leg - then it's easy to assume it is also simple to undo if someone changes their mind. So why worry if young people are rushing into it?

The framing directs the conversation down entirely the wrong path.

The depiction of surgery as something akin to taking a flipping Lego brick on and off a model is definitely a recurring motif in the discourse. If anything, sometimes i think it's portrayed as somewhat easier than building a model Millennium Falcon.

You may or may not have come across the following; it's a manifesto produced by a group called Edinburgh Action for Trans Health. I won't reproduce the full thing, but note that it refers to "additive and reductive chest surgeries".

We demand the freedom to alter our bodies without justification. We demand an end to all surgical prerequisites - nobody should have to prove life experience,health or have to be taking hormones in order to exercise bodily autonomy. We demand that these surgeries can be highly customised to meet our individual & unique needs. We demand the right to multiple surgeries, including reversal of previous surgeries if desired, so that we do not have to fear regret. We demand the free & timely provision of genital surgeries, additive & reductive chest surgeries, hysterectomies and orchiectomies, tracheal & vocal surgeries, facial surgeries, lipoplasty, contouring & microdermabrasion, surgical hair removal & transplantation, and any other possible procedure to meet our needs as we express them.

The whole thing is hosted on tumblr

Absolutely this!

The tax payer should not be paying for surgeries that do physical harm to healthy individuals. It’s absurd.

Indeed! and "mental pain" isn't going to be fixed by bodily surgery with poor physical outcomes and high rates of complications.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

We demand the freedom to alter our bodies without justification. We demand an end to all surgical prerequisites - nobody should have to prove life experience,health or have to be taking hormones in order to exercise bodily autonomy. We demand that these surgeries can be highly customised to meet our individual & unique needs. We demand the right to multiple surgeries, including reversal of previous surgeries if desired, so that we do not have to fear regret. We demand the free & timely provision of genital surgeries, additive & reductive chest surgeries, hysterectomies and orchiectomies, tracheal & vocal surgeries, facial surgeries, lipoplasty, contouring & microdermabrasion, surgical hair removal & transplantation, and any other possible procedure to meet our needs as we express them.

Do they have any, any idea of how bloody insane this sounds?

This is real life. No fucking do overs. It's not fucking Sims!

is this what happens when children are brought up getting everything they want just handed to them, no matter the bloody cost. Just as long as little Johnny is happy and doesn't have a screaming fit for 20 minutes in the car.

Wow! Thanks for posting that, @PurgatoryOfPotholes - I'd not come across it before.

They really have no idea how any of this works, do they?

When young women with breast cancer are not allow to have a double mastectomy for peace of mind why should elective cosmetic surgery be carried out for free by the NHS? Currently most reconstructive surgery for breast cancer has been very quietly shelved in many areas to save money and to reduce waiting list time for breast surgery to remove tumours. Twelve months ago waiting time for initial surgery was two to four weeks post diagnosis. It is increasing at a concerning pace.
Healthy women who have chosen to re gender themselves should not be able to queue jump using taxpayers money.

Do they have any, any idea of how bloody insane this sounds?

<thinks>
I'm going to have to say no. That part, read in isolation, without the context of the other manifesto headings, comes across as much saner than the rest. There is a part where the writers declare that trans people have a blanket right to medical training. (At which point all wannabe medical students would identify as trans, but that's small change.) And they demand the release of all "trans prisoners".

Binturong Absolutely none. No idea whatsoever. It's the emotional demands of a toddler who is upset his cake is gone after he ate it. But it's articulated using rather sophisticated, manipulative language. The mismatch between emotional age and apparent academic attainment worries me.

It's the emotional demands of a toddler who is upset his cake is gone after he ate it. But it's articulated using rather sophisticated, manipulative language. The mismatch between emotional age and apparent academic attainment worries me.

Also, it's the language of people who've spent waaaaaay too much time in the virtual world.

It really shouldn't have to be explained that humans are not Mr Potato Head or Meat Lego. We can't just be assembled from a pick-n-mix selection of body parts, there's all manner of complexity, of variability between bodies that makes things unpredictable during surgery, tissue grafts failing to establish, all kinds of scarring, nerve damage, not to mention that there's an increasing problem with antimicrobial resistance.

Yes, the entire manifesto was utterly unhinged. They also demanded the release of all trans prisoners and that hormones should be available over-the-counter.

But the real testament to out and out batshittery is that these loons were asked to give evidence to Maria Miller's Women and Equalities committee for her report on Transgender Equality.

Objections were characterised by Maria Miller as coming from women 'purporting to be feminists'.

The list of individuals and organisations who have been invited to influence MPs about the removal of women's rights and child safeguarding is quite unbelievable. It's hard to find a more "dubious" group of people - which of course is why we're in this place now.

We demand immediate release & pardon for all trans prisoners

Lol. So the entire prison population then.

But the real testament to out and out batshittery is that these loons were asked to give evidence to Maria Miller's Women and Equalities committee for her report on Transgender Equality.

Great Scott! I was concerned that that mismatch between phrasing and content would get them a foothold somewhere, but I don't think I feared a foothold gained somewhere as lofty as Parliament.

I suppose nothing should surprise me, after the transwoman who gave evidence to that committee, who complained about not being able to access webpages about sex toys via the train company wifi on the train journey to parliament.

And Jane Fae who has campaigned years for the legalisation of extreme pornography and lowering the age of participants.

Not forgetting Jess Bradley who exposed his penis at work (among other things I've erased from my memory.)

All taken seriously enough to give evidence to parliament.