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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Taxpayers should pay £40 million for trans men to have penises fitted abroad to bypass NHS waiting lists

132 replies

inkjet · 03/12/2022 09:23

apple.news/AOPrr5ERrTlOl2lwYl1lM3g

It’s an LBC article I saw on Apple News.

“Some 7.1 million people were on the waiting list in October, with 400,000 waiting for more than a year. Mr Brown said he understood that his group’s demands could seem outrageous in this context.”

OP posts:
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Soothsayer1 · 03/12/2022 13:07

RedToothBrush · 03/12/2022 12:31

Well that is indeed a motivation that would fit with the demand isn't it?

Definitely!
follow the money .....it's all about the financial gain isn't it!
They are just making hay while the sun is still shining, got to get those phalloplasties done by any means possible and then we can sit back as the profits flow into our bank accounts, it's a job creation scheme for the therapists and the medics and the pharmaceutical companies who will clean up all the mess

NeedToKnow101 · 03/12/2022 13:29

@RedToothBrush - I think so many people are talking about it because so many schools are pushing it and so many of people's children are identifying as trans or non-binary. It's everywhere.

I hope this is all a distant nightmare in 5 years time. Too many children have been damaged already. I just want it to stop.

WhereYouLeftIt · 03/12/2022 13:36

Slight tangent - the high complication rate (80%) has been mentioned, complications including hand disability and urinary incontinence.

But what is the result if the op is 'successful'? Any photos I've seen, it doesn't look like a penis. It's not as if it's capable of erection without mechanical help - is it capable of sensation? What counts as 'success' to the surgeon and the patient?

Whatwouldscullydo · 03/12/2022 13:43

WhereYouLeftIt · 03/12/2022 13:36

Slight tangent - the high complication rate (80%) has been mentioned, complications including hand disability and urinary incontinence.

But what is the result if the op is 'successful'? Any photos I've seen, it doesn't look like a penis. It's not as if it's capable of erection without mechanical help - is it capable of sensation? What counts as 'success' to the surgeon and the patient?

Being able to pee standing up i guess.

Although YouTube has several transmen who have documented their repeated failures at the whole " voiding test"

All this, the scaring , infections, disabilities to maybe have a rod installed so they can pump it up amd have sex pretty sensationless sex. And to pee standing up 🙄

EL8888 · 03/12/2022 13:50

Mouthfulofquiz · 03/12/2022 09:43

When I think of the hoops women have to jump through to get basic healthcare, HRT, to be able to have breast reductions when they are in pain every day… well it’s just pathetic.

Yep. It is totally pathetic. Endometriosis is agony and can cause infertility. Lack of HRT and access to breast reductions. Thats before you even get onto repairing birth injuries or IVF

Whatsnewpussyhat · 03/12/2022 15:25

We already know that for many, if not all of, these teenage girls that it's a form of self harm and control in response to physical or emotional trauma.

Their poor mental health is a symptom of this, not a symptom of them somehow supposedly being a man, because that is a fictional nonsense. A form of self protection. Not something that should be encouraged and agreed with.

The support should be there to help them deal with the reasons behind their dysphoria, not to help them cause permanent damage to their perfectly healthy bodies because of it.

The fact that we already know 80%+ grow out of their dysphoria when their bodies and brains mature, the affirmation model seems ridiculously counterintuitive anyway. To push all these kids onto a medical pathway on the basis gender ideology is absurd.

HermioneWeasley · 03/12/2022 15:33

Here are my considered thoughts on the matter

HermioneWeasley · 03/12/2022 15:34

Here are my considered thoughts on the matter

Taxpayers should pay £40 million for trans men to have penises fitted abroad to bypass NHS waiting lists
BellaAmorosa · 03/12/2022 15:47

I have to say, part of me feels this sudden push to medicalise by any means as quickly as possible, is about a feeling of trying to get as many people trans as quickly as possible before the jigs up on the whole con. The more they can convert ahead of that, the most who are trapped by it.

Totally this!

BellaAmorosa · 03/12/2022 15:48

HermioneWeasley · 03/12/2022 15:34

Here are my considered thoughts on the matter

😂😂

Melroses · 03/12/2022 16:02

BellaAmorosa · 03/12/2022 15:47

I have to say, part of me feels this sudden push to medicalise by any means as quickly as possible, is about a feeling of trying to get as many people trans as quickly as possible before the jigs up on the whole con. The more they can convert ahead of that, the most who are trapped by it.

Totally this!

Yes this -
Once you have invested in this to the point of medication and surgery, it becomes a Susie Green style sunk cost fallacy - you need to keep on believing and for everyone else to believe on your behalf. The more there are, the more it persists.

Signalbox · 03/12/2022 16:10

Why the hell are these surgeries not considered to be aesthetic? I mean they’re certainly not improving function and very likely will lead to a group of individuals with massive urinary issues later in life. At some point they will have to just put their foot down and say no more. The tax payer should not be paying for surgeries that do physical harm to healthy individuals. It’s absurd.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/12/2022 16:13

Contrast these demands with the relative silence about the abysmal state of maternity care for women with (I think) nearly half of all NHS trusts with services rated inadequate. The silence & lack of action from the NHS about this in contrast to the endless resources spent on rainbow washing really tells you where women and babies stand on the priority scale - it's right at the bottom.

Signalbox · 03/12/2022 16:14

Also these operations cost a fortune. So the £40m is probably for very few individual operations.

BellaAmorosa · 03/12/2022 16:46

I'm glad it's out there - sunlight, etc. These people have no idea how bonkers they sound.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/12/2022 17:28

Anyone else remember that feature in the New York magazine, from a journalist rhapsodising about how great their phalloplasty had gone?

extract

So there I was then, finally, showing up to online specialized transmasculine support groups for people seeking or recovering from phallo, between hours spent hustling to call (six) surgeons’ offices about consults and my PCP’s office (19 times) for referrals and my insurance company (17 times — that I wrote down, anyway) for the necessary authorizations. And here they were, these trans and nonbinary people of many races and locations, coming together to try to hold one another’s questions and fears about which donor site on their body to use, and how the site had (or hadn’t) recovered, and how much sensation they had (“My whole dick feels like a giant clit!” one elated guy described his rare, very best-case outcome once to widened eyes all around), and what size testicle implants they got if they got testicles (which are optional) at all, and which surgeon they went to and when could you go back to work and who in the world took care of you, and did anybody else have this or that or a whole series of fistulas or strictures around their new urethral hookup that rerouted their pee and is also optional, and did anyone else just leave their urethra where it is? Once, a pre-op 52-year-old Black man who was struggling with money and his disability and insurance asked if having a penis was really going to make a difference, relieve any of this pain he was barely surviving, and I watched as the post-op group members calmly assured him that, yes, it would. If he could just hang on, hang on, hang in there.

“It gave me a little more hope,” he told me later, “to keep going.”

“I would rather have died on the table than not had the surgery,” one Korean American guy with great sweaters responded (and, like everybody here, gave me permission to repeat), to a chorus of nodding Zoom heads.

It has happened at least once that someone did die. I was fully ready to, by which I mean I’d just spent nearly the last of my savings, which I’d burned navigating the emotional-mental-social-medical-legal-extreme-marginalization mindfuck shitshow of transitioning, on a burial plot just in case. One of the nodding heads in the group belonged to a nonbinary white person who was still horizontal in recovery from having had, a week prior, the worst happen, which was that after their procedure, in which all the fat and skin had been stripped from their left forearm from wrist to nearly elbow, along with major nerves, an artery, and veins, and then shaped into a tube and connected, in careful layers, to skin and blood vessels and nerves in their pelvis, their new penis had failed.

It died. On them.(continues)While I’d been sleeping, two microsurgeons, a reconstructive urologist, a surgical fellow, and a surgical resident had, among other things, cut a seven-by-six-inch rectangle out of my right anterior lateral thigh. They’d taken all the skin and fat, plus one big nerve and some veins attached to the muscle, and connected the skin to itself in the shape of a phallus. Then they slipped the whole thing under two of my thigh muscles, pulled up out of the way with a steel retractor, dragged the phallus across my groin under the skin, and pulled it back out into the world through a hole cut in the skin over my pubic bone. They connected the new penis’s nerve to one of the nerve bundles in my native penis, which some people call a clitoris (embryologically, the cells are the same), which they’d cut free of its ligaments, then skinned, then tunneled up under the skin and out to the landing site of the new penis, the base of which they joined to the base of my pelvis, putting me all together with sutures, some finer than a human hair.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/12/2022 17:29

read more at NY Magazine

Soothsayer1 · 03/12/2022 17:45

I cant help feeling that the surgeons* feel flattered at the grueling lengths these people go to to obtain the penis, the quintessence of masculinity, could that be what blinds them to the horror of it all?
(*I'm assuming they are blokes but of course they may well not be)

Timezones · 03/12/2022 17:46

It's full steam ahead in Scotland. Which will make NHS care even less accessible than it is at the moment. And which the taxpayer will have to pay for.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11429395/NHS-Scotland-plans-remove-barriers-irreversible-operations-transgender-patients.html

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 03/12/2022 17:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/12/2022 17:56

Can anyone give me a hint about what was in the post above? It was deleted in less than 7 minutes!

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 03/12/2022 17:57

Mumsnet please explain which part of my post was against talk guidelines?

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 03/12/2022 17:57

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/12/2022 17:56

Can anyone give me a hint about what was in the post above? It was deleted in less than 7 minutes!

I said it was elective surgery and the NHS shouldn't pay for it.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/12/2022 18:04

That is not what I expected.

This thread must have someone here, with their thumb absolutely hovering to report. Maybe it's the spokesman in the OP.

SapphireSeptember · 03/12/2022 18:06

@PurgatoryOfPotholes
I like how she called her clitoris a penis. 🙄 They're not the same thing at all! (Preaching to the choir I know, but this sort of thing really riles me up.) Might as well call it an undeveloped penis, if that's all you think it is. (Obviously it's not, it's a beautiful part of women's bodies, and it's telling that some men have wanted to destroy that part of us for centuries.)

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