Thread to discuss the reality of parts of the UK absorbing large numbers of men from other cultures

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

This thread is to replace the one that got deleted earlier today, and the TAATs that came after it.

As per MNHQ in site stuff, we're OK to have this conversatrion

www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/4687254-how-do-we-discuss-the-reality-of-parts-of-the-uk-absorbing-large-numbers-of-men-from-other-cultures?reply=121883255

I'm so glad this thread has moved on since yesterday!

@EndlessTea good post at 07.41. But re your last post, I don't think this thread is about grooming gangs per se. It's about the threats to women's rights posed by an influx of men from other cultures - misogynist, racist, homophobic cultures. Grooming gangs may be part of that, but as a pp pointed out, they tend to be second and third generation immigrants.

I think it's probably worth separating these things out?

The problem is, in my far right harsh opinion 😉 is that those who drive policy are humming “imagine all the people…” and picturing vibrant markets filled with goods from around the globe.

the harsh reality is that much of the world is (and has been for millennia) utter shitholes driven by patriarchy and tribalism (in its literal sense).

heathrow has nice shops, but it doesn’t do personality transplants.

we are very lucky we live in the UK - and yes, we’ve still got a way to go to smash the patriarchy - but we’ve seen huge leaps in just my short 50 years.

if I’ll be labelled “extreme far right” for saying I don’t fancy slipping back in time and being groped in the street - then my only question is : will there be a uniform? If yes, might I suggest G, W, P for a colour scheme.

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would think that referring to Western culture and values makes one in any sense "extreme". It is that culture and those values that mean you are able to join in a discussion like this one in the first place. In Western culture it is absolutely normal and routine to educate girls to the same standard as boys. Had you been born a girl in Yemen or Somalia, you might never have learned to write your name, let alone write nonsense on a forum like this.

Arguing that only the far right care about values such as women's rights, freedom of speech, equality for all without regard to sexuality or race, education for all children, equal opportunities etc is such an own goal. Why are you handing these vital, foundational values away? The far right don't give a shit about your freedom or equality, and yet here you are, throwing it to them like it doesn't mean a thing to you, either. Shame on you.

Right you are BeastlySlumber. Yes.

I suppose I conflated the two because both the grooming gangs and the street harassers are perpetrating racially and religiously aggravated misogyny. And both are relatively forbidden subjects for discussion.

Do you call Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile a "Grooming gang"?

Why not I wonder? 🤔

Indeed endlesstea. And I guess it's rare to have a chance to talk about any of these issues, so maybe we're all just throwing everything into the pot right now!

One of the things I've noticed is that whenever I, or any other woman for that matter, talks about harms done to women - whether it's the abolition of single-sex spaces, the exploitation of women through prostitution, the use of poor women as surrogates or the ready availability of hardcore pornography - we get accused of being right-wing, or even far right.

I suppose we're all supposed to react with horror at the thought we might be far right, and thus mend our ways and become nice submissive women who think that sex work is work and welcome men into our changing rooms and domestic refuges. And then we can glow with the virtue of being progressive and left-wing.

But you know what? I've heard it all so often, it's water off a duck's back. If you want to persuade me I'm wrong about something you're going to have to do better than accusing me - a lifelong socialist - of being far-right. Try thinking of an actual argument. My guess is you can't.

The Far right have no interest whatseover in
'women's rights, freedom of speech, equality for all without regard to sexuality or race, education for all children, equal opportunities etc"

they are interested in stirring up racial hatred -as many posters on this thread are doing-

Do you think ‘grooming gang’ is a harsher term, with slightly racist overtones, compared to ‘paedophile ring’?

Because they weren't a grooming gang? They were two serial sexual abusers and rapists.

I mean, I don't know what your definition of gang is, but I reckon it needs to have more than one or two people in it.

I personally think the term ‘grooming gang’ underplays the horror these men perpetrate. Racist paedophile rape gangs, would be more apt.

Who is trying to stir up racial hatred?

It's not happening. Talking about behaviours of males from different cultures and discussing ways in which these behaviours could be prevented to protect women is not stirring up racial hatred, it is trying to make the lives of women better.

I suppose we're all supposed to react with horror at the thought we might be far right, and thus mend our ways and become nice submissive women who think that sex work is work and welcome men into our changing rooms and domestic refuges. And then we can glow with the virtue of being progressive and left-wing.

But you know what? I've heard it all so often, it's water off a duck's back. If you want to persuade me I'm wrong about something you're going to have to do better than accusing me - a lifelong socialist - of being far-right. Try thinking of an actual argument. My guess is you can't.

Exactly RoyalCorgi.

It's quite amusing to me at this point that people think calling me nasty names is going to have any effect whatsoever. Try coming up with an argument, and then we'll see.

Agreed.

I believe you

‘I don’t believe you if what you say is politically inconvenient for me’

👍👍👍 much progressive

And this was my motivation in pushing the point with MNHQ to ask them to let the thread stand

I was as horrified as any other good middle class lefty by Brexit. But the people who voted for it weren’t stupid, or ‘gammons’ or turkeys voting for Christmas

they knew what they had experienced, but affluent liberal society wouldn’t let them talk about it, just told them they were racist

people knew damn well that uncontrolled immigration had driven down wages. Peter Mandelson was quite open about the fact that that was actually one of the aims

people knew damn well that huge influxes of people into areas where the infrastructure was already creaking without putting in any extra resources meant they couldn’t see a GP or get a school place for their child, or whatever

but they weren’t allowed to talk about it. And so Nigel Bloody Farage and Dominic Fucking Cummings got to make hay while the sun shone

stopping people talking about the problems that are affecting them doesn’t solve the problems and it just makes people look for ways they can talk about them and get them sorted. And you might not like the ways they pick

My comment got deleted, so let me rephrase. Those who are against Western values are standing alongside the far right, who are also against Western values.

It bothers them a lot more than it bothers me! See when you turn it back on them, they cannot stand it. Interesting.

This.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001fmtz?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

This incredible speech is very relevant here

It's the Reith Lecture Chimimanda Ngozi Adichie