Women and girls' sex-based rights

[StephanieSuperpowers]

Well, here we are...

Am trying out the app, and still** struggling with formatting evidently, the first line which is a quote from kuc's post was meant to be in bold.

Is there an area similar to U.K. news?

There are News and Politics boards. However, current affairs threads also frequently appear in AIBU or Chat. Brexit threads are mostly on the Brexit board (like FWR, another example of corralling).

I tend to click on Active to see what's grabbing people's interests and then pick something to browse from there.

As several posters have already pointed out on this thread, MN is much more socially and politically diverse compared to the Old Place, and I find this a very helpful reminder (to me) of the Big World of People out there.

I'm already a member! Nice to meet you :)

I was looking at the Urban75 forum the other day (left forum) as I was reading some old chats and followed a link, and they have had a similar experience to you, with posters leaving because they didn't like the presence of trans threads or certain posters, GC women have left because they feel silenced, and many of the women there appear to feel pushed off the main boards and that they can't discuss it anywhere on the site except in private chats not open to other posters.

Short Twitter thread by glosswitch nabbed from the old place, sounds about right:

"I think there will be journalists who end up drawing the same conclusions on teenage girls and gender dysphoria as the women they vilified, and the way around this will be to claim the women who spoke out first made it harder for "nuanced" people to have a say."

twitter.com/glosswitch/status/1595826005054455809?s=20&t=OVr1CZaROJ2oWJt7sIFKsA

YY, exactly, Bignose.

Yes, @Ereshkigalangcleg that place is often enjoyably well informed, but not on this. There are still some GC women on there, even talking about women's things, but discussing women's sex-based rights is an absolute no-no. Partly out of understandable concern for some longstanding TW members but also partly because of righteous-think. MN has a terrible reputation on there. 😅

There is nothing quite like the righteous left-wing male for assuming all his beliefs are righteous beyond examination or question.
NARL-WM, obviously.

The flip side of the righteous-think thing, all over the internet and in staffrooms and bar rooms, is the refusal to even look at any source of information that doesn't itself bear the stamp of righteousness.

Many excellent studies of various cognitive biases to be found on that site. But I am finding the oppression of the right left-thinking man very depressing.

I do want to respect the fact that there are trans-inclusive women. I think of myself as trans-inclusive in life, but with those intersectional worries. It’s the silencing of questions that scares me. I feel that the ‘no debate’ dogma means any resolution is impossible.

I began to find it (the old place) frankly cultish, at least in this area. As has been highlighted many times by The Wonderful Thread (I mean that without sarcasm or irony), the parallels are obvious:

belief in something factually wrong
use of power gradients
mantras and chants, TWAW being the most obv
acceptance of a sort of transubstantiation
vilification of the unbeliever
exclusion ditto
priests who speak in impenetrable language but are revered for their wisdom
self-appointed lay priests
lay priests on the lookout for apostacy
laypriests demanding sanctions, bannings of actual people
priests, lay in this case, whipping up popular fervour against the heretics without troubling to explain the issues
proscription of certain words and concepts

But (pike) there are a number of threads here which discuss Queer Theory, which is actually named, so that's good!

The weird thing is that the traditional left view of religion as the opium of the people really does seem to hold, when you see (as well illustrated on other threads on this site about e.g. the Green Party lawsuit, that obsession with suppressing heretical views is a real distraction from other big issues of climate change, economic redistribution or indeed justice for women. It would be fascinating to watch if it wasn't so tragic.

The flip side of the righteous-think thing, all over the internet and in staffrooms and bar rooms, is the refusal to even look at any source of information that doesn't itself bear the stamp of righteousness.

Yes, I agree. And even when the source is respectably mainstream like the Guardian or the BBC, that's just proof of "institutional transphobia in the media" which must be rooted out. They don't see past their own cognitive bias.

I also think, and have said many times here, that many "righteous trans ally" types get so very very angry about being exposed to GC views because they are scared they might agree in some sense. Easier to monster people and not have those awkward conversations or interrogate your own beliefs, which might mean that you can't pretend sufficiently well for your peers to consider you one of the righteous. They've mostly seen what happens to people in their circles who aren't.

TWAW literally means that you believe any male person can be a woman just because they say so. It's absurd, when you spend too long thinking about it. So they don't want to. It's a right-thinking credo. It doesn't need to make sense because they don't interact with it in a rational, evidence based way.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the discussion becomes unavoidable, as I honestly believe it will. How will they cope with the Forbidden Topic? Obviously, it'll go as glosswitch suggests, but how will they even allow the subject to be opened so it can get to the point where they're blaming us for saying it wrong?

Sonia Sodha today:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/27/nicola-sturgeon-will-endanger-women-if-she-opens-single-sex-spaces-almost-everone

I mean I regard myself as trans inclusive in that I support the right of trans people to go about their lives as happy, safe and fulfilled individuals protected from discrimination.

My clubbing days and the music I like means I know, and have known, a fair amount of trans and non conforming individuals, who I greatly respect and like.

I came to this issue via a few practical policy questions I asked in a work context and was made to feel stupid, small and wrong. Then the more I explored the issue the more I became interested and concerned about some of the clashes of rights.

I have to say what surprised me most in thr early days of discussing this was people who insisted trans women were loterally women. I had always assumes no one literally believed people could change sex, least of all trans people. To my mind trans women were trans women, a group of people with their own needs, experiences and interests and that was fine. The trans women I knew were loud and proud about their trans status. I was astounded when that view marked me as a bigot.

I have just noticed that you can do bold on the app by clicking on the T button, then B option before typing.

This is bold

Or alternatively put a single asterisk directly before the word you want in bold and another one directly after.
asterisk before this and one after

I don't think it works if you leave a space here
I was wrong, it does!

Been trying to figure out how many have left the other place. A few who registered here are still posting there, but I think for some it's permanent.

For myself, now that we're free of the regular trolls and drive-by scolds, it feels rather like we were all in an abusive relationship and not yet realising. There's no way I can go back to that.

I mean, may be I am? Perhaps it is like my lovely grandad who thought he was being polite and correct when he referred to my hijab wearing, Indian origin (but UK born) university housemate as "your colonial friend".

But it's not just a case of language and attitudes changing is it? Men still can't change sex and become women.

I mean I regard myself as trans inclusive in that I support the right of trans people to go about their lives as happy, safe and fulfilled individuals protected from discrimination.

Me too. I am not about to start calling men "she" or women "he" because speaking truthfully is very important to me. I would not be rude to people though, I will use their chosen name.

I do want to see the use of cross sex hormones and unnecessary surgeries reduced as I believe it is harmful and people should be given support to accept their healthy bodies. Especially as far as this affects young people.

But other than that I support people being as gender non-conforming as they wish.

Hello, everybody. I'm another partial refugee from the other place.

I'm a middle aged bloke, with a 9 year old daughter. I first became interested in this a few years ago, when I looked online, for advice on how to find a sport, or activity, which she'd enjoy. I was shocked to see that a lot said, "Why bother? Rachel McKinnon" etc.

I've no objection to TW existing and living their lives free from harassment, going about their business, free from fear. But as I saw more of the hate and demands for conformity, the more upset I became. The links people posted, with threats of violence etc were extremely shocking to me - all of them directed at women and girls. I began to think, "Before long, my girl is going to experiencing this sort of stuff."

I feel sorry for the trans people, who also get monstered, for trying to be sympathetic to women and girls, from not ruining their sports, or making them fearful in toilets and changing rooms etc.

Anyway, that's my tuppence worth for now.

Thanks for the link to SEEN. I'm not CS, but am public sector ALB so think I qualify.

Good to see you, Sinner, always enjoy your posts.

Yay! Sinner!

Great, an influx of men to educate us little womens, that's just what we need.

Is there an equivalent to SEEN in HE, does anyone happen to know?

theperfumes, these new men who've joined from the other place are not here to 'educate us little womens', they are good people and entirely on the side of women. Maybe give them a chance before you start dissing them, eh?