Royal college of psychiatrists inclusive Q&A session does not go to plan.

[userlotsanumbers]

Twitter ratio, replying to a tweet with shades of Nottingham Council about it.

Questions were not welcome at a Q&A session.

45 Transphobic questions

Institutional capture?

In fact, if there were not questions I would be worried about the degree of capture of psychiatrists.

I think the tw in hospitals may be from somewhere else. If that is the case, my apologies to Mx Hartland.

So would this petition, if successful, prevent situations like a transwoman being cared-for on a women's psychiatric ward?

Petition

I see he is involved in the ban on conversion therapy document med schools are being asked to sign up to and works at/is affiliated with GLAAD. Explains a lot about some of the stuff I’ve had coming through university recently.

Well it’s annoying that whoever took the time to write that blog didn’t just post the whole presentation.

I can’t really assess what’s happened here without it.

No wonder there were questions. What a load of.....!

You can see pretty much all of it by clicking on the Twitter link downthread or the archived version.

Wouldn’t there be copyright infringements to post the entire presentation??

Not as long as it attributed to the correct source? It's my understanding that the College have posted all of these webinars in the series on their YouTube channel - has this one been posted also? If not, why not?

I am trying to work my way through this whole queer theory and ideology, with the help of this board (you make sense to me), but it has struck me - when did even the idea of sex being binary become abnormal? 'Gender critical' is presented as a theory and not a fact. Whereas 'queer theory' is being presented as fact.

It is shocking. Also, yes, it feels like hate to the women who's lives you're debating and anyone who can't see that there are two groups of people who are affected here should take a long hard look in the mirror.

Here's a much, much better presentation. I think they could do with this for balance:

Critically Examining the doctrine of gender identity - Rebecca Reilly-Cooper

(There's a 40-minute Q&A too. Don't recall how transphobic it was.)

Great to see the actual slides - thanks! And no wonder it provoked plenty of questions.

A couple of weeks ago Hartland tweeted that a BBC reporter was investigating the way in which he had persuaded the med schools to sign up to the conversion therapy document.

I think we may be hearing more about Dr Hartland in the not too distant future.

is this where "conversion therapy" is anything that isn't "sqeeeee let's give you all the meds and operations"?
In the way that "adult human female" stickers = literal genocide?

It is absolutely impossible at this stage to have a calm conversation about these things and reach some compromises (and set some red lines). I had thought the medical profession and academia were above all this.

@Thingybob
That can’t come soon enough.
Ive been deliberating whether to say something but I’m new to the department and haven’t got the measure of things yet. The literature through for it has the hyperbole and poor evidence to support it we’ve come to expect from these organisations.

How so many med schools and NHS trusts, populated by people who work with academic rigour and evidence based policy ever got so captured I’ll never know.

Have you got a link to what was written/said? I’d like to read more.

I'm not in the field and know only what I've read, but haven't "lived experience", "expert patient" and "peer support" rather taken over from academic rigour and evidence based policy? Also "listening to" and "working with" "communities"?

All that's needed then is for certain types of "communities" to start shouting very loudly and Bob's your uncle.

Not that there's anything wrong with listening to people's experience, but as well as, not instead of, surely? And balancing the needs of all sorts of people and communities, not just one or two.

I find it discombobulating that someone with medical training has reproduced that dreadful Scientific American “sex is a spectrum” diagram and presented it as fact?

That 'intersex' slide is appalling. I'm no expert so won't say any more except that I hope a doctor who is an expert on variations of sexual development takes it apart.

Don't medics usually refer to actual evidence in presentations to peers? The spelling mistakes are embarrassing but we all make mistakes. The lack of rigour is really poor.

Hartland's presentation is very similar to most "trans" training for the NHS, education, businesses etc provided by individuals and lobby groups. A self invested adult using guilt tripping / manipulative "training" techniques to silence an audience and prevent critical thinking about an incoherent and contested ideology that does great harm to the young & the vulnerable.
As we saw with that appalling Mermaids training in a school that was secretly recorded, none of it has any intellectual, scientific or ethical coherence. Shameful that it's been allowed to continue unchallenged for so long.

Sorry I can no longer see the tweet as his account is now restricted and I don't have a screen shot.

Paraphrasing it said something like, a BBC reporter has been putting in FOI requests to the medical schools who have signed the Conversion Therapy Charter. I don't know why I'm being targeted as I'm honestly a good person.

My impression of Hartland from that tweet was that they are a vulnerable person so I can understand people signing just to 'be kind'

I am GC but I think all sides of the debate risk being captured by absolutist positions and proponents. That threadreader thread above, is interesting and appeals to my general position but it has the whiff of a different sort of superiority and 'look at me' about it. All that "we are the adults" gubbins is not a very strong argument and not a very skilled way to argue.

For avoidance of doubt I'm talking about th J Reads and writes thread. Objectively, I don't disagree with any of the facts and arguments but there are definitely appeals to people's emotions and a sense of superiority there. All that stuff about how the speaker is clearly very unwell (maybe, how do we know?) And how we bring people like this back around and re educate them. It's not a million miles from the tactics and lines of reason/rhetoric employed by the transactivist side.

I absolutely believe that transactivism is for the most part an anti-feminist postmodern 'look at me' excercise, but because employing cheap tactics, however cleverly, doesn't help our cause.

To be fair, it is hard to see someone to unable to see a path to happiness without subjecting their healthy body to unnecessary surgery as anything other than an expression of poor mental wellbeing. I feel the same about people who are addicted to plastic surgery for any other reason. I don't think recognising people's mental struggles is necessarily about superiority. It can also be about wanting to get them help which actually helps = hence the concern about what is being done to our kids. What is th J reads and writes thread?

The trouble is Goaway that reasonable approaches have all failed. Children have continued to be gaslit into the most terrible self harming behaviour, the NHS even try to cover up a woman being raped on an allegedly single sex ward rather than identify the alleged transwoman perpetrator. The trans extremists have not stopped. They've become more batshit with their demands (evidenced by the presentation we're discussing).
The only thing that is working is blunt talking. It's all the pretend speak and not saying anything in case someone's offended that's allowed this to continue to these extreme levels.

Yes, it should be that TW are not cared for on women's wards. Karen White's victim should have been the end of that experiment.

This does not mean that they should be cared for on the men's ward if they don't wish to be. Third spaces would be the answer.