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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Royal college of psychiatrists inclusive Q&A session does not go to plan.

200 replies

userlotsanumbers · 24/11/2022 06:47

Twitter ratio, replying to a tweet with shades of Nottingham Council about it.

Questions were not welcome at a Q&A session.

45 Transphobic questions

Institutional capture?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
FrizzledFrazzle · 24/11/2022 12:50

MsMoorhead · 24/11/2022 12:02

Screenshot directly from the Royal College of Psychiatrists EDI training yesterday.

Oh wow, yeah, I can see why practitioner psychiatrists had questions abou

FrizzledFrazzle · 24/11/2022 12:51

... about that slide!

StellaAndCrow · 24/11/2022 12:53

Yes, people who have worked on acute female psych wards would immediately see the problems.

And I imagine just asking "what is gender" may have been considered transphobic. If you're treating on the basis of something, you should be able to explain what it is.

StellaAndCrow · 24/11/2022 12:54

I wish we could get true EDI experts talking about balancing competing rights.

DodoPatrol · 24/11/2022 12:57

‘Transwomen may be uncomfortable on all-male wards’ would be fair enough. Reasonable accommodation for that discomfort would be to offer a (known) mixed or solo space where possible.

It’s the forced presence of unwilling or unwitting women that is so fucking unreasonable.

Dreikanter · 24/11/2022 13:30

That slide - “single sex spaces - trans women need to be housed in all female wards”.

Then those wards instantly cease to be female wards / single sex spaces?

IcakethereforeIam · 24/11/2022 13:44

Moley, proper belly laugh

Royal college of psychiatrists inclusive Q&A session does not go to plan.
DrDinosaur · 24/11/2022 13:56

Rightsraptor · 24/11/2022 09:42

Somewhat of a side issue I know, but a poster upthread refers to advice to GPs about 'deadnaming' trans patients. Having a broken arm is given as an example of trans status being irrelevant.

But I'm sure I remember it being explained that being trans and on meds is indeed relevant with a broken bone with the possible reduction in bone density, muscle strength etc.

I'd venture to say taking/having taken cross sex hormones (never mind SRS) is always potentially medically relevant.

GPs see lots of minor illness (colds, sore throats etc) where sex probably isn’t relevant, but it’s hard to think of anything significant enough to require referral where sex, and hormone therapy if any, wouldn’t be relevant. If only to ensure the lab was using correct reference ranges, or, if a patient was taking hormones, that normal reference ranges may not apply.

And legal or not, referring a transman with an acute abdomen without explicitly mentioning their sex, is medical negligence in my opinion.

AnHonestAnswer · 24/11/2022 14:02

This is 100% true (in my lived experience!) - in 2011, I was admitted to the male section of a psychiatric unit. I’m a female, I was in my 30s. There was a transwoman already in the female part of the unit before I arrived. There were a couple of quite aggressive men in that ward, though thankfully I wasn’t ever a target. A couple of the men were protective of me, in a way, they looked out for me, as did the staff. But I shouldn’t have been there. Transwomen in women’s wards isn’t a new thing though.

BoreOfWhabylon · 24/11/2022 17:06

Not a doctor, despite how they styles theyself.

Also, so sensitive that they appear to have pre-emptively blocked lots of people on Twitter, including those likenme who have never interacted or even commented on the thread.

And - how can you give a presentation without having a free hand to operate the slide clicky thing?

Royal college of psychiatrists inclusive Q&A session does not go to plan.
Manderleyagain · 24/11/2022 17:14

The college has tweeted

We don't know who made the upsetting comments. The event was open to a wide audience, including those outside the College. We are currently trying to ascertain who was behind the posts and take appropriate steps.

I really hope some members see and write. This is such an alarming approach. It sounds like they are planning some kind of retaliation against the questioner. It's possible they said something unacceptable or personal - but the vagueness & not setting out what they said just creates the chilling effect. Thou shalt not question.

The original post was that there were 45 questions. That don't have been one person.

Manderleyagain · 24/11/2022 17:16

mobile.twitter.com/rcpsych/status/1595759752155365376

IcakethereforeIam · 24/11/2022 17:38

The slide from the presentation, why does it only mention tw? As the good 'Doctor' is apparently a tm it seems a bit of an oversight.

Perhaps there were questions about that.

howmanybicycles · 24/11/2022 17:43

Manderleyagain · 24/11/2022 17:16

Thank god. Adult thoughtful replies.

Datun · 24/11/2022 18:37

IcakethereforeIam · 24/11/2022 17:38

The slide from the presentation, why does it only mention tw? As the good 'Doctor' is apparently a tm it seems a bit of an oversight.

Perhaps there were questions about that.

Quite. They were probably asked to comment on a lone female being housed in a male psychiatric ward. And isn't that a bit risky.

Rightsraptor · 24/11/2022 19:02

Well yes, @DrDinosaur , you are correct of course. I was thinking more of the actually ill people, not the worried well (I confess to one or two of those myself in the past - usually child-related).

ZeldaFighter · 24/11/2022 19:12

This is from BEAT about how to treat anorexia:
Therapy
There are lots of different talking therapies that can be used to help treat anorexia. The aims of talking therapies are to reduce risks to your physical and psychological wellbeing, encourage healthy eating, and aid your recovery by helping you to develop healthy ways of coping with the thoughts and feelings behind your eating disorder.

Therapies that might form part of the treatment for anorexia include:

Cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT)
Cognitive analytic therapy (CAT)
Interpersonal psychotherapy (IPT)
Focal psychodynamic therapy (FPT)
Family interventions focused on eating disorders

Apollo442 · 24/11/2022 19:22

Why not agreeing that they're fat?

BloodyHellKen · 24/11/2022 19:47

Apollo442 · 24/11/2022 19:22

Why not agreeing that they're fat?

Because that would be insane as would prescribing appetite suppressants to encourage the body dysmorphia some people with anorexia have.

I just don't get why gender dysmorphia is treated so differently. You don't think it could be because it's been hugely monetised do you? Because no one would be that evil would they?🤔

BloodyHellKen · 24/11/2022 19:48

I'm being sarcastic btw. Of course some people are that evil if money is involved.

IcakethereforeIam · 24/11/2022 19:48

Apollo442 · 24/11/2022 19:22

Why not agreeing that they're fat?

Imagine if Weightwatchers had gone the way of Mermaids!

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 24/11/2022 20:00

I find it quite worrying that Dr Hartland is a lecturer in Bristol Medical School - full-time, if not practising as a doctor any more? Their role at the school focuses on teaching students to examine the bias and privilege they bring to clinical practice. Self-flagellation, in other words.

Medicine is an extremely tough job, and resilience, clear thinking, ability to answer tricky questions and deal confidently with difficult people are all pretty important. Surely medical educators should be modelling these qualities to students?

I've worked with medics in the past who've delivered this sort of session in CPD, university or placement teaching or at conferences, and I can't imagine any of them reacting like this, no matter how challenging the questioning.

lgbtqima.wixsite.com/website/post/dr-jo-hartland-what-is-your-vision-for-lgbtqia-health-care-teaching-in-the-medical-curriculum

Dreikanter · 24/11/2022 20:19

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 24/11/2022 20:00

I find it quite worrying that Dr Hartland is a lecturer in Bristol Medical School - full-time, if not practising as a doctor any more? Their role at the school focuses on teaching students to examine the bias and privilege they bring to clinical practice. Self-flagellation, in other words.

Medicine is an extremely tough job, and resilience, clear thinking, ability to answer tricky questions and deal confidently with difficult people are all pretty important. Surely medical educators should be modelling these qualities to students?

I've worked with medics in the past who've delivered this sort of session in CPD, university or placement teaching or at conferences, and I can't imagine any of them reacting like this, no matter how challenging the questioning.

lgbtqima.wixsite.com/website/post/dr-jo-hartland-what-is-your-vision-for-lgbtqia-health-care-teaching-in-the-medical-curriculum

This screenshot was posted on Twitter and I thought this had to be a wind up.

Maybe not.

I wonder if the webinar will be added to the RSP YouTube channel?

JeanRondeausMadHair · 24/11/2022 20:22

The hand picture is very much 'look what you made me do'. A position common in..

FemaleAndLearning · 24/11/2022 20:42

OldCrone · 24/11/2022 10:13

I disagree about the relevance of Hartland's sex. From some of the posts on here I got the impression that some people thought this masculine-presenting person was male. I think the fact that this is a female who is taking testosterone and has probably had a double mastectomy is very relevant. But it's the fact that it's someone who has medically transitioned rather than their sex which is important - I would be saying the same if it was someone who looked like a woman who was in fact male.

My view is that the RCP should not have selected a trans person to do this webinar. They should have selected someone who could give an objective view and answer questions objectively rather than someone who was likely to take any criticism as a personal attack and suffer an anxiety attack as a result.

Proudly showing off the double breast removal.

Royal college of psychiatrists inclusive Q&A session does not go to plan.