Just despair - HOW do some women just not get it!

[Mynewchairhasarmrests]

Just finished a brilliant novel written by a female author about friendships, girlhoo, womanhood, and growing up as a girl. She was so absolutely on the money about what it’s like to be a young woman and the pressures of looking and acting a certain way, the awful way women are so often treated by men, the way women are portrayed in the media, how we are programmed not to recognise sexual assault and told its just boys having fun, and how we aren’t believed even if we do report it. Her anger and passion really came through and it was good, though depressing, to read someone telling it exactly like it is.

You know what’s coming. I then look on her social media. She’s a TRA. Signed a letter condemning JKR for being ‘anti trans’. Condemns Germaine Greer for being so wrong on trans issues.

I just don’t understand how these women can see the misogyny everywhere they look BUT the place where it’s in its worst, purest form - gender ideology.

Its like a glitch in the coding somewhere. Why can’t they see it? I have another friend who is on the board of a rape charity. We had long conversations about how shit it can be to be a woman. The misogyny everywhere. I was sure she must be GC. But no. A TRA. Doesn’t speak to me now she knows I’m a TERF.

I just don’t get it. Is it fear of societal disapproval? A reluctance to admit the liberal progressive cause they publicly embraced is anything but and that they’ve been had?

In addition, our societal response hasn’t been to ban the existence of teachers, shut down all the schools and home educate children. We all accept the risk and send our darlings off to school. So in a way, I think the reaction to the risk is OTT when it comes to TW.

Er no.

Societal response has been to put in place safeguarding processes and to have single sex spaces.

Only since the mantraing of TWAW are we now having a group of males demand the lowering of the safeguarding processes that are in place.

Or have you not realised 'our darlings' now may have a male teacher watching them in a female changing room or as one of their 'guardians' in an away from home accomodation if they declare they are a female. And that no parent is allowed to know that this is the case so they can make a decision about whether their child should be sent or not.

I mean, parents at a swimming pool in Washington had no idea a young male was watching their 'darling' girls get changed in a holiday camp because they were not told the sex of the person who was in charge of them.

Girlguiding here in the UK has decreed that no parent is to be informed the sex of any leader that is looking after their girl on a trip away.

This is not theoretical, 'our darlings' are currently subject to safeguarding loopholes such as this. You might be comfortable with it. I am not and I won't be told I am unkind, or paranoid for not being comfortable with it.

I'm not totally convinced that the number of predators in a society will always remain roughly the same. Why should that be the case? If you remove safeguarding and thereby lessen the risk of punishment, and if you encourage victim blaming and the sexualisation of children, and if you say that sex and age are just identities in someone's mind and not real things, and if you say that children can want sex with adults (Tatchell) and if on top of all that you flood society with violent pornography - it's at least possible that this will create more predators and predatory behaviours than we would expect to see if those factors were not there.

Neither. That statistic is meaningless without a per capita calculation and a general population per capita to compare it to.

Please explain to us what these statistics mean to you.

Please explain your comment here. I feel I am missing something.

Comparing % [sex offenders] between trans and nontrans prisoners tells you nothing as to whether there is over or under representation of sex offenders.

Why not? Please explain.

Except nobody here is proposing banning TW or anything like that. What people are saying that we should not be compelled to participate in their self image (delusion?), especially to our own detriment - nor should we be compelled to share single sex spaces with them. That doesn't mean they don't exist - how ridiculous!

Yes, please explain your thinking. I'm no mathematician or statistician but even I can see that when you are talking about the percentage of male sex offenders and the percentage of those who self-identify as trans, you are dealing with a limited and known set of numbers.

It’s one thing to say we need safeguarding, and quite another for gender critical activists to claim there is “no such thing as a TW” that “it’s all a game of pretend” implying that all TW are predatory men…without exception.

Im not comfortable with the extremist views often aired on trans issues.

Nonsense, it's regarding the prison population - the per capita numbers shouldn't matter.

Did you read the article?

'Fair Play for Women examined individual prison inspection reports and concluded that 41% of transgender women in prison are convicted sex offenders.

Its claim was reported by several news outlets.

If more than 40% of trans prisoners were sex offenders, that would be disproportionately high.

According to the most recent data, 19% of all prisoners are serving time for a sexual offence.'

implying that all TW are predatory men…without exception.

Who is doing this?

Genuinely. Who is implying all TW are predatory men... without exception.

Because this sounds like hyperbole to me. It sounds like you are framing views as 'extremist' so that you can discredit them when this is not the case.

AgathaAllAlong
They say things like: gender is the social meaning of sex, where that means it's the collection of traits, behaviours, preferences and personality types that are socially ascribed to people who have, or are perceived to have, a given body type. Being a woman is identifying with the gender that society ascribes to women (in the sex sense).

So by this definition, there are many females (including me) who she wouldn't see as women? Does she believe we are non-binary or men, and mistakenly think of ourselves as women? (As if we're trans people in denial.)
How would she react if a girl was told she couldn't do/wear something because it's a boy thing?

I do understand the position to a much smaller extent, in that the world is sexist so there are gender stereotypes, meaning some people may be more comfortable with* the opposite stereotypes, and thus we have transwomen and transmen.
And I'd be happy to celebrate trans people breaking down these sexist stereotypes AS trans people - men who choose to present as the social stereotype of women and women who present as the social stereotype of men. Only instead the argument is that they ARE the opposite sex by adopting the stereotypes, or maybe that sex is irrelevant** and the definition of "woman" or "man" should be based entirely on gender feelz. Instead of breaking down gender stereotypes it reinforces them, making them the defining characteristic.

*This is of course a privileged position to be able to take. There are millions of women the world over who would very much be more comfortable with the male role in society but cannot simply identify as male. Because "identify as" is not the same as "be".

**Only sex is very much relevant to this, as it is sex that dictates which gender role we're assigned at or before birth. So bizarre when TRA types have gender reveal parties - at least be consistent in your beliefs!

'You cannot say that transpeople are more likely than non transpeople to be sex offenders unless you measure number of sex offenders on a per capita basis against the overall population. Comparing % prisoners between trans and nontrans prisoners tells you nothing as to whether there is over or under representation of sex offenders.'

Nobody is saying transpeople are more likely than non transpeople to be SOs - what this article seems to suggest is that IN PRISON more males will tend to identify as trans.

My mind's boggling at 'nobody should be excluded because of their trauma'.

On the face of it, that sounds ever so kind, doesn't it. I mean, who doesn't feel sorry for people suffering trauma. Of course, we want to not add to that and help them if we can. Of course we don't want to be mean and nasty.

But let's not forget that the vast majority (all?) of the prison population have suffered trauma. And suffer mental health problems.

Should they get specialist mental health treatment? Absolutely (they don't, of course).

Should we look to put measures in place in society that mean we reduce the circumstances that lead to trauma and lead a person down a road to criminality? Absolutely (we don't, of course. This would cost ££££ and take decades, so nobody bothers).

Should we just go 'ahhh, poor sods have suffered trauma, we should't be locking them up and excluding them from society, let's just be kind and let them out to live freely among us'? Abso-fucking-lutely NOT! And we don't, do we? Because that would be absolutely nuts and dangerous for the rest of us.

People with trauma of any kind or etiology don't automatically get a course of EMDR as long as they need on the NHS. If they can't do their job as a result, they get fired.

Trauma doesn't give anyone a free pass in any other walk of life. So why should women and children as a class be expected to take greater risk and biological males into their hitherto safe same-sex spaces, because a small number of biological males feel traumatised by their gender dysphoria?

The real answer is to provide sufficient mental health support to trans people such that they can accept their bodies as they are.

By the way, are you comfortable with a transitioned male who is a stranger to your daughter assisting your 5 year old daughter to get dressed and generally watching a group of 5 year olds get dressed?

Are you comfortable with a young girl being in a situation where they could be sleeping in a room/ tent with a male if appropriate procedures are not being followed on a girl guide camp? One that could walk into an open shower block without any questions to check on the girls in there?

With all due respect, this isn't really answering the points raised. Presumably you agreed that safeguarding is needed? How do you feel about the relaxing and in some cases total removal of safeguarding for those who identify as trans? Does it concern you? If not, why not?

The implication is that males who are not, in fact trans, are likely to adopt a 'trans identity' in order to access vulnerable women, and/or achieve a lighter sentence.

This is what we mean when we say that self ID will be abused by predatory men.

Is that you, Shona?

Lol. Maybe it's wee jimmy krankie herself.

I’ll use a basic illustrative example with made up numbers to show you why you cannot compare % of offenders by category convicted of the same offence the way you did.

Female population: 5 million
Male population: 4.8 million

Female Prisoners- 100
Male Prisoners- 100,000

Female murderers- 10
Male murderers- 8,500

% female offenders convicted of murder= 10%
% male offenders convicted of murder= 8.5%

FALSE Conclusion, females are more murderous than males. Does the uterus cause homicidal rages in women?

I am not quite how someone can interpret the very high proportion of transitioned male sex offenders as NOT being an indicator that at the very least that transitioned males commit sex offences at at least the same rate as the overall male population. Taking the numbers strictly on a statistical basis, it means they have a much much higher propensity.

I am waiting to see just how posters explain this away though. Because it will be enlightening .

But we're talking about male sex offenders and the proportion of them who identify as women. We're not comparing them to anything else.

But isn't the point that the rate of sex offenders is higher in trans-identified male prisoners compared to non-trans? Not the number.

I.e. 40% - 60% of trans prisoners are sex offenders compared to 20% of non-trans.

In your example of males and females, the rate of murderers is higher in the female population than in the male, which would make your conclusion correct. (Your numbers are wrong so it's not a correct conclusion, but hypothetically, it would be.)

You did say it
How come > 40% of transwomen in prison are sex offenders? Either there are an astonishing number of 'wolves' suddenly, or SOs are taking advantage of a 'trans identity' to either access women or gain benefits within the system.

And
what this article seems to suggest is that IN PRISON more males will tend to identify as trans.
No that’s not what the statistic is saying. I’m not even sure what you mean by the above. More males compared to what basis?