Just despair - HOW do some women just not get it!

[Mynewchairhasarmrests]

Just finished a brilliant novel written by a female author about friendships, girlhoo, womanhood, and growing up as a girl. She was so absolutely on the money about what it’s like to be a young woman and the pressures of looking and acting a certain way, the awful way women are so often treated by men, the way women are portrayed in the media, how we are programmed not to recognise sexual assault and told its just boys having fun, and how we aren’t believed even if we do report it. Her anger and passion really came through and it was good, though depressing, to read someone telling it exactly like it is.

You know what’s coming. I then look on her social media. She’s a TRA. Signed a letter condemning JKR for being ‘anti trans’. Condemns Germaine Greer for being so wrong on trans issues.

I just don’t understand how these women can see the misogyny everywhere they look BUT the place where it’s in its worst, purest form - gender ideology.

Its like a glitch in the coding somewhere. Why can’t they see it? I have another friend who is on the board of a rape charity. We had long conversations about how shit it can be to be a woman. The misogyny everywhere. I was sure she must be GC. But no. A TRA. Doesn’t speak to me now she knows I’m a TERF.

I just don’t get it. Is it fear of societal disapproval? A reluctance to admit the liberal progressive cause they publicly embraced is anything but and that they’ve been had?

Perhaps a useful article from KPSS on data and the prison service.

kpssinfo.org/how-are-male-prisoners-who-identify-as-transgender-recorded-in-the-data/

I really agree with this. I do think it’s mostly that many ‘good’ intentioned people don’t get it - why would they? The dominating voices are trans, anyone dissenting is crushed. They don’t see it, hear it, read it.

And even in this thread, you can see how ‘twisty’ even obvious facts such as prisons are overlaid with strange arguments - the barrier is there so that the stark realities of what very clear safeguarding issues such as TW in women’s prisons don’t get to see the light of day.

I really struggle with talking calmly and politely with a person who shows no misgivings at all about locking women prisoners up with rapists, and would rather lecture about statistics than engage with that fundamental fact

others on this board are much more collected and I salute them

LaughingPriest · Today 10:03
I've wondered this over the years and after thoughtful consideration, my analysis is they're either lying or thick.

That wasn't addressed at anyone on this thread - you @Onnabugeisha hadn't even posted yet so to say it was aimed at you is... I don't know how to say 'untrue' without you claiming it's an attack on you, so, kindly, "it isn't borne out by the available information."

It was immediately followed with me saying "Seriously though" and a less flippant analysis.

You have been incredibly rude by saying transphobic stuff like you believe that some TW aren't really trans women (I paraphrase - you think it's possible to claim to be trans but not really be) then when given the option to expand on that you repeatedly refused. I haven't called you out on that until now, but it's been noted that you either can't answer or you don't want to say because it might look bad.

Does anyone mind if I go back to an earlier post which is more on-topic?

Agatha very concisely said - for what TWAW types believe the definition of woman is -
"Sure. They say things like: gender is the social meaning of sex, where that means it's the collection of traits, behaviours, preferences and personality types that are socially ascribed to people who have, or are perceived to have, a given body type. Being a woman is identifying with the gender that society ascribes to women (in the sex sense).

To be clear, I am what they would call a TERF - I think that sex, and sex based discrimination is what matters. But I am not baffled by their position, I don't think it's incoherent or deranged or so insane it's staggering that anyone could think it. I just think that they're wrong, and my interest in finding out exactly what they think and how they define things like 'women' comes from wanting to really point out where they go wrong (unless of course they change my mind before I change theirs...)"

So - essentially, femininy socially determined traits are inherently linked with being female, and masculine ones with being male.

The difference between a GC and a TRA sort of person is that a GC person believes that feminine and female can be mutually exclusive - being one doesn't mean you're the other - vs believing that the traits are linked to being female, and, broadly, can't be uncoupled.

So I can understand this in my grandad's generation, and even today, loads of people have 'traditional' views about sex and gender.

But so often, as in the OP, it's people who have clearly thought about this, have been conscious of avoiding gendered stereotypes for their kids, are aware of the specific issues that come with having a sexed body - that sex does matter in some situations, such as medically, in sports, in relationships - but still insist that having THOSE traits mean you are THAT sex, there's no getting away from it, that sex is who you truly are.

Often it's intelligent people who have thought about it - to a point. Then I think the thought-terminating cliches kick in.

Sorry, I ended up having to skip to the end to write what I want to say.

So all this talk about statistics and how many angels can dance on the end of a needle, when in fact, locking women up with just one male rapist, be they genuine or pretend trans, is cruel and unusual punishment.

And I seriously have problem with individuals who are trans and believe that their human rights are every bit as important as anyone else's, but why on earth do people think they have a right to enter the spaces of the other sex?

Correction: "And I seriously have no problem with individuals"

Because it’s the ultimate validation, and that’s what they’re looking for.

Any intrusion of reality into their world view threatens their sense of self, which is ultimately incredibly fragile. We are talking about people with a psychological condition, in the vast majority of cases.

All the nodding yes-men and handmaidens in the world can’t change the scientific truth, and when they’re confronted with it, they get nasty.

So we have to accommodate the lie, because we’re socialised to do so. Unlike them. Because they’re men.