New York - Let Women Speak tour - violent attacks, arrests

[ArabellaScott]

twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1592248525555126272

Hoping everyone is okay.

WoLF are lefty. But all the British ‘tainted by association’ brigade have given them shit for it. American radical feminists realised that they had common ground with religious women and both groups put their differences to one side. Since most Americans are religious, it would be insane for American feminists to not work with religious women if they want to get any social traction. But all the purer than pure Brits threw their toys out of their prams when KJK and JL went over there to take part.

THAT is exactly my point.

KJK's tour hasn't happpened in a vacuum. It's happened in the political context of the States, during the mid-terms.

Which is influenced to precisely zero degrees by a women's Facebook group.

"I am not making women responsible for men's violence, but..."

It's the 'but'. It's always the 'but'.

When I quickly perused the ‘Actual’ FB site, it’s obvious that it is the same characters - American as well as British doing all the stirring they’ve been doing for years.

💯 agree, these are the women who have been putting US women in danger by stirring the pot and getting Antifa involved.

The blood will be on their hands.

And? That has precisely what to do with the male violence that we witness against women?

Ah, that'll be the Antifa who take their orders from women then?

I looked it up - it's the first rule of misogyny that says that women are responsible for what men do.

I think the ‘Actual’ group is too tedious for most people to read so I doubt it has a wide reach. Unpleasant people being unpleasant and boring.

I’ve been pondering about AGCL and associated groups and their aversion to freedom of thought, freedom of speech and freedom of association for those who have the ‘right to call themselves left wing feminists’.

It is a really negative, pessimistic view of humanity and every prohibition of thought, word and deed, is couched in this fear of backlash.

You can’t criticise the misogyny of Islam or Islamic cultures or practices, or listen to, or associate with anyone who does, because all the terrible, awful human beings will suddenly descend into a terrible frenzy of islamophobia. This is forbidden.

You can’t criticise the misogyny of Queer Theory, or the quest to ‘smash heteronormativity’, or listen to, or associate with anyone who does, because all the terrible, awful human beings will suddenly descend into a terrible frenzy of homophobia. This is forbidden.

Their precious ‘Left’ is like a voluntary prison camp where people who step beyond this ring of fear must be despatched with.

If you have a more optimistic view of humanity, that we are all basically good and that our goodness can always be appealed to, in order to stop any descent into a terrible frenzy of hatred, then this mental prison camp of the Left seems about as attractive as volunteering for the gulag.

The way that their intellectual reasoning is clearly totally compromised by the ring of fear too - lots of hypocrisy and contradictions- is totally off-putting to anyone who is fond of clarity, logic or good sense.

You can criticise and loathe men with all your being, but not if they are black or brown or follow Islam - that would be racist.

You can rage against women being exploited, bought and sold, denied autonomy over their own bodies, unless those doing it are gay - that would be homophobic.

Also, I think the fact that KJK is happily married to a supportive husband who doesn’t oppress her in any way, and on top of that, she is really contented to be a sahm, really threatens the ‘all men a bastards’, we’d all be better off if we LTB, ‘all sahms are down-trodden domestics slaves’, view that the fear and hate-based, AGCL-type feminism depends.

I think you're right that the AGCL Facebook group doesn't speak to many women. It's a public group with a few hundred followers when we know that there are millions of women whose politics are leftist involved in this struggle.

The panel discussion after the screening of Adult Human Female on Saturday was interesting. Women like K I-S, Lucy Masoud and Joan Smith talking about difficult relationships with the UK left. An audience member asked what they meant by left, and I think it was Karen who said social organisation that is anti-sexist, anti-racist, anti-homophobic, and based on reducing oppression for marginalised groups, fairer distribution of wealth etc. She put it better than that. The panellists all had various experiences of the current misogynistic position of the Labour party and were working to influence.

But Labour being crap doesn't mean that left political positions and beliefs don't exist or don't count. It makes it even more important that their articulated and enacted in the public domain.

Autocorrect fail - It makes it even more important that they're articulated and enacted in the public domain.

Yes. They appear to hamstring themselves over of a lack of discernment.

Except when it comes to PP. No thoughts that raging against might be thought of as sexist!

Well, I guess every movement has its extremities. And that fb group certainly seems to display too many cues of extreme thought or at least extreme free thought suppression to miss.

If speaking plainly about donor egg harvesting exploitation and surrogacy is to be shunned as offensive and hateful, then I think we can see the tightening purity spirals in action.

And again I get the feeling that some of the members of that group see other women as resources to provide voices and funding when needed and to be vilified when deemed out of line.

Never mind that the reasons for opposing the gender identity ideology are diametrically opposed (the right needs women to be the sex they wish to control and keep submissive as a resource, gc feminism wants women to be the name for the female sex so that the right's attempts can be fought against and sexism and misogyny and sexual violence and sex discrimination addressed): Anyone openly criticising the concept of abstract gender identities as the proper replacement for biological sex in everything is assumed to be a right-winger and a bigot.

Yes, but we were specifically talking about left leaning msm and why it maintains zero silence, why it's happy keeping people in the dark, not even providing a tiny bit of a balanced view in their content. They are keeping people ignorant by not reporting stories. It's so unhealthy.

Yes, yes, we have the Guardian and the BBC here but some stuff gets through, even if it's through the Observer. But that's just a couple of outlets but in the States it's the majority of msm.

A few years ago, it was pretty much one lone voice - Janice Turner, writing behind a paywall in a right-wing publication- The Times! Even though she is left wing and certainly used to be a member of the Labour Party at the time.

It took a while before things started trickling through the Observer.

The right wing were also pushing it too - Maria Millar and Teresa May. No one on the mainstream right or left, apart from JT and the Times were openly criticising it.

I’d say America is currently in a better position than back then in the UK, to a large extent, because at least the mainstream right seems to be pushing back.

What does AGCL stand for?

It was not one lone voice. There were public talks and lots on social media. There was a woman who reached out to young women transitioning and gave them support not to.
Do you think most people know about KJK? They do not.
Just as you did not know what was happening before.

True, Endless but I really think in the States it's partly a reaction to the right media outlets covering it - we can't possibly think the same thoughts - and that's so frustrating.

A few years ago, it was pretty much one lone voice - Janice Turner, writing behind a paywall in a right-wing publication- The Times!

This is true. I remember the days when ANY news article or even oblique reference by a mainstream journalist would make us so happy because this stuff just wasn't getting covered. It took women campaigning and lobbying and doing events to start changing things. And, unfortunately, it took women being attacked and losing their jobs and getting cancelled to end the #nodebate deadlock. Finally, we had JKR who spoke up and could not be ignored.

Obviously the US has a different set of things going on, but I am hopeful that this will change when women push the story into the mainstream. KJK is contributing to that, as are organisations like Hands Across the Aisle and women like Abigail Shrier and Meghan Murphy and many others. I know that many US women look to us on Terf Island for encouragement and inspiration.

Yep, beastly. Things have swung round wrt media coverage here in the UK. The US is a whole different kettle of fish.

Actual Gender Critical Left

They seem rather authoritarian to me...

For me, I see it as rooted in class analysis of oppressive hierarchies and taking measures to redress the imbalance.

However, distinct classes are all getting a bit fuzzy now. Social mobility means it is hard to pinpoint what ‘working class’ or ‘middle class’ means. ‘Race’ is a pretty false distinction between human beings, since we can get together and make babies. ‘Immigrants’ and ‘natives’ is pretty meaningless since we have second, third, fourth generations of immigrants who are British born and ‘want to control immigration’. The only truly enduring classes of human beings, is our natural separation into two sexes.

I know you were paraphrasing, but there is no contradiction between being “anti-sexist, anti-racist, anti-homophobic, and [socially organising] based on reducing oppression for marginalised groups” and being right wing - if you think it isn’t all the job of The State and that charities and religious groups should play a large role.

The “fairer distribution of wealth” bit is the actual left wing bit, imho.

I am talking about mainstream media here. Janice Turner was the only one for a while. Everyone else in the mainstream was, at best, treading on eggshells and engaged in elaborate circumlocutions, to the point their words were pretty much meaningless.

I still don't get why reporting on what is happening shouldn't be in the MSM in the US.

I think what you are saying is that people will see it and may vote republican which is overall worse for women.

But why should that be the case? Why wouldn't they look at it and lobby the Democrats to protect women as a sex class and protect children from being mutilated?

Because it seems very much like what you are suggesting is that women should put up and shut up.

Yes it is the flipped pyramid thing isn’t it?

You can be scathingly cruel towards a woman because of her sex, but it isn’t sexism if she is white, coz she is just a worthless contemptible ‘Karen’ who has had all those privilege points in her favour for too long.

I've asked this question many times in many ways on this thread and I still haven't been given a reasonable answer.

So I've come to the conclusion that posters saying this just really think that KJK and women like her should stfu so that left-wing women can lead.