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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New York - Let Women Speak tour - violent attacks, arrests

503 replies

ArabellaScott · 14/11/2022 20:32

twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1592248525555126272

Hoping everyone is okay.

OP posts:
VestofAbsurdity · 16/11/2022 18:14

Aah something sparkly that'll convince them.🙄

Happylittlechicken · 16/11/2022 18:18

It’s the glitter innit? Now which other group is fond of glitter and rainbows?…….

TinselAngel · 16/11/2022 18:19

Happylittlechicken · 16/11/2022 18:18

It’s the glitter innit? Now which other group is fond of glitter and rainbows?…….

Um. It's not hairy legged feminists....?

EndlessTea · 16/11/2022 18:21

ArabellaScott · 16/11/2022 16:27

Maria's assailants were anarchists-in-name misogynists,

But the males attacking women in the US are 'antifa' (and also misogynists) - is this not similar?

Both groups self-describe as ‘antifa’ - they have the same outfits, etc.

They do seem to be rather organised and coordinated across the globe for suppose ‘anarchists’.

I honestly think they come across like youths whose diagnosis of ‘Oppositional Defiance Disorder’ has been noted and then led to them being targeted and manipulated into thinking they are ‘fighting the system’ - trained like dogs, so they can be deployed for a bigger agenda they have no clue about. “Fash over there Rover - seize!”. They are all very obedient the way they show up. They overwhelmingly show signs of ND or learning disabilities and none of them seem very clear about what they are fighting against or why. I smell the whiff of exploitation.

IwantToRetire · 16/11/2022 18:32

For those who didn't follow the elephant in the room thread, one contributor (who should be thanked) took the time to check companies house for who WPUK legally are. And it may come as no suprise as behaviour has suggested it, but there is a big cross over between WPUK management and members of AGCL.

And whilst I think eventbrite have just gone bat shit crazy in cancelling women's events being advertised, the WPUK event being taken down isn't really a loss to feminism but a loss to what is now a small clique promoting each others to enhance their star status.

I wonder is this is why they go all out for PP as whatever you think of her, she has huge outreach, and they just cant stand someone who the think is politically unacceptable keeps getting women to follow her.

OmiOmy · 16/11/2022 18:34

If these events had been on mainstream media (not left, there isn't any)

I am going to have to pick up on this cos it's clearly not true. You have these guys in the States:

NY Times
Washington Post
CNN
PBS
MSNBC

All these MSM outlets are left leaning and all have chosen to ignore not only women's rights, medical intervention on children*, sports, prisons etc but actively promote trans rights activism and deride anyone who speaks up against it.

*NYT finally did a piece on children and medical intervention.

Helleofabore · 16/11/2022 18:34

Goodness! That 'Actual Gender Critical Left' page is wild.

I see Antelope is merely recycling their discussion points. Almost exactly. I am not surprised at all.

When you then read on the control of thinking by this group also covers other topics too. For instance, only reject 'surrogacy' using pre-approved words it seems too. So those using surrogacy won't feel isolated out due to their sexual orientation.

Helleofabore · 16/11/2022 18:40

I don't actually see that much 'feminism' being discussed on that Facebook site.

I think know that whenever antelope and others come onto FWR and make derisive comments about 'how many threads can be dedicated to KJK', that we should post a link to that page and let people see just what 'real' feminists are discussing....

And there are posters there wishing that Standing for Women get arrested and charged for the pepper spraying of a 14 year old in Portland. Without ANY VIDEO evidence at all and no way of knowing who actually sprayed who.

I can see exactly where antelope feeds their hatred and prejudice. And why they cannot understand that reasonable posters simply find that rhetoric so fucked up.

OmiOmy · 16/11/2022 18:47

Actual Gender Critical Left

I actually thought a poster came up with the term here. It's actually a real thing. 😂 Is there one called The Real Gender Critical Left yet?

LK1972 · 16/11/2022 18:48

God I'm sick of this hatred coming from left-wing so-called feminists. Well done leftists, brilliant push of centrists to the right - more for you to complain about in the future about I suppose Confused

IwantToRetire · 16/11/2022 18:49

Although in one way I was quite sad to find out WPUK wasn't an independent single issue campaign (despite their Labour / union links) I was relieved to find the overlap as thinking there were any number of groups like AGCL made it seem they are a bigger element than they really are. But just like the original TRAs, there weren't many of them, but they were very good at getting into (entryism) places of influence. I think we are all aware whether at work, or supposdely independent locals groups, that in fact the private networks are the ones that make the decisions.

So big thank you at @bosky to doing the most straightforward reveal. Once you see it you cant unsee it www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4662757-womens-place-uk-filia-event-the-elephant-ignored-yet-again?page=27&reply=121163378

IwantToRetire · 16/11/2022 18:52

Is there one called The Real Gender Critical Left yet?

I had thought of starting a spoof facebook group called No Actual Gender Critical Left. But then it seems it would be a spoof. There is no actual gender critical left!

Helleofabore · 16/11/2022 18:53

OmiOmy · 16/11/2022 18:47

Actual Gender Critical Left

I actually thought a poster came up with the term here. It's actually a real thing. 😂 Is there one called The Real Gender Critical Left yet?

it is very real on Facebook. The link is up thread.

Some of the names are also Brighton feminists. As in the Brighton feminists who have a KJK 'sin' page on their site that list her sins. While conveniently ignoring the very prominent feminist writers who have said the same thing on occasion.....

The deep hypocrisy is simply unbelievable until you see it. And members of that Brighton Feminist group have told us it is all just fine and not vile bullying of a woman who is working loosely for the same things at all..

And still antelope comes here and attempts to ignore and dismiss the violence against women because they are 'literally' the women that some feminists disagree with while telling us what a real feminist is.

Happylittlechicken · 16/11/2022 18:56

OmiOmy · 16/11/2022 18:47

Actual Gender Critical Left

I actually thought a poster came up with the term here. It's actually a real thing. 😂 Is there one called The Real Gender Critical Left yet?

Give me 5 minutes 😂😂😂

IwantToRetire · 16/11/2022 19:02

The Brighton Feminists are the one who came up with a collective statement re SfW in Brighton aboou how women in Brighton should all work together with the council to be "kind". No attempt to condemn the violence.

They also stooped to trying to enhance their feministness by claiming "Sarah" was part of their group. Which first of all is a total breach of her privacy, but also a disgusting threat to her annonymity re her court case against Survivor's Network.

And no surprise that is also the link to FiLia and why they, so keen to be one of the head girls, sycophantly promotes these women who happily accept the fanzine platform to promote themselves and each other.

All these groups who think we should just accept them as being able to dictate what we should and shouldn't think, should be obliged to provide a declaration of interests. ie this isn't a political meeting, this is a publicity stunt for a book written by one of us.

Shinyredbicycle · 16/11/2022 19:06

beastlyslumber · 16/11/2022 17:10

I am engaging with the actual issues. Sorry that they're not the ones that you want to focus on, but they matter.

No, you're not. You're stating an opinion that KJK's events shouldn't get media coverage because you believe people will take the terrorists' side over the women's.

Okay, that's your opinion. It's not an issue. It's not something substantial worth discussing, because the fact is it's hypothetical. I think that people seeing what's really going on is a good thing. You think it isn't. There's nothing really to discuss there, since mainstream media isn't covering it.

What issues do you think you're engaging with? Because all I see is you repeating the same opinion.

No I didn't.

I said that I'm glad that the tour hasn't been covered on the mainstream US media, not that I didn't think it should be.

I wish you'd stop putting words into my mouth.

I've written one post on this thread and a couple of brief ones to clarify that one when people asked and you think I'm repeating the same opinion?

Do you know what 'repeat' means? Genuine question.

Shinyredbicycle · 16/11/2022 19:14

VestofAbsurdity · 16/11/2022 17:51

And the reality is, it seems you are describing people who cannot think outside ‘political’ alignments.

Quite. Identity politics is a feature not a bug of the Left/Democrats.

You say there is concern due to Roe v Wade, etc., @Shinyredbicycle amongst your Democrat voting family and wider circle - so what are the Democrats doing about it? What have they done? What has the Democrat President done? Biden managed to bring in an Executive Order on his first day in power regarding transgender rights but hasn't done the same to ensure a woman's right to an abortion. Funny that.

That seems very much like entrenched views, right there. And if they judge everything by what media it is on, who else said something at the event and their ‘associations’ rather than what was actually said, and look at women being attacked and victim blame the women, that says a lot about them.

Exactly. As I said feature not a bug. Here's me thinking that the USA was supposed to be a grown up democracy not a childish reactionary one.

Well, my sister worked at a family planning clinic until it was closed down. She's been campaigning to extend/stop the destruction of abortion rights for decades, She's been organising with other midwives about helping disenfranchised women without access to funds access abortion care, distribute contraception, single sex refuges etc.

She votes Dem because it's that or Trump, and that's the reality she's living in. Can't stand much about Biden, not least his gender ideological stance, but overall the Dem policies are less harmful to women.

Is that enough activism for you?

Shinyredbicycle · 16/11/2022 19:15

But I have not, and nor would they, blame women for men's violence.

KJK et al aren't responsible for the violence at their events.

Socfems aren't responsible for the violence at the SKW events.

Shinyredbicycle · 16/11/2022 19:24

EndlessTea · 16/11/2022 18:21

Both groups self-describe as ‘antifa’ - they have the same outfits, etc.

They do seem to be rather organised and coordinated across the globe for suppose ‘anarchists’.

I honestly think they come across like youths whose diagnosis of ‘Oppositional Defiance Disorder’ has been noted and then led to them being targeted and manipulated into thinking they are ‘fighting the system’ - trained like dogs, so they can be deployed for a bigger agenda they have no clue about. “Fash over there Rover - seize!”. They are all very obedient the way they show up. They overwhelmingly show signs of ND or learning disabilities and none of them seem very clear about what they are fighting against or why. I smell the whiff of exploitation.

I think you're right - there is a lot of exploitation of vulnerable young people in politics especially on the fringes.

The 'antifa' at Speaker's Corner and other earlier events weren't organised in any way. No bigger picture than shouting and threatening women for having the audacity to meet and speak to each other in the name of 'trans rights'. I don't know who, if anyone, the black clad crew at later events are connected to.

All the extremist groups in the States are far bigger and well more organised than in the UK, not least because social media platforms have mushroomed since 2018. Many of the young people involved are at extreme risk of being exploited.

It's who is doing the exploiting and the power that they hold that influences how things pan out.

VestofAbsurdity · 16/11/2022 19:33

I was talking about Democrat politicians @Shinyredbicycle what are they doing? Are Democrat politicians being challenged by their voters?

Shinyredbicycle · 16/11/2022 19:37

Of course they are.

Bit like challenging Labour over here. Ignored, dismissed, lied about, told you're a bigot, excluded from events/mailing lists etc.

beastlyslumber · 16/11/2022 19:38

I said that I'm glad that the tour hasn't been covered on the mainstream US media, not that I didn't think it should be.

Sorry @Shinyredbicycle but to be fair, that's quite a subtle difference. You're glad it hasn't been although you think it should be?

I've written one post on this thread and a couple of brief ones to clarify that one when people asked and you think I'm repeating the same opinion?

All I know from what you've posted is that you are glad that the tour hasn't been covered on msm. I now know that you think it should be (even though you're glad it isn't.) Your reason for being glad about the lack of coverage is apparently because you think people would side with the terrorists over the women trying to speak.

What am I missing?

TinselAngel · 16/11/2022 19:41

What I'm taking away from this conversation is that the US is fucked and maybe we should leave them to it.

But then I wonder if that's what Posie's opponents (on both sides) want us to think?

EndlessTea · 16/11/2022 19:45

From what I’ve noticed is a few of the KJK haters seem take the ‘children’s rights’ position of things like adoption, surrogacy, sperm/egg donation very personally and insist on it being a ‘woman’s rights’ issue only- akin to abortion rights - a woman’s right to choose, etc.

However, if you think of children having rights, such as the right to know who their biological parents are, and the right to be able to seek them out and meet them at some point, it doesn’t sit well with people who want men to donate their sperm (ie- become biological fathers), women to donate their eggs (become biological
mothers) or rent their wombs and bodies as surrogate mothers. The reason being, the donors and surrogate mothers would never agree to it, if they thought their biological children would ever come looking for them.

So there is tension there. If you have made a pact with your child’s father to never reveal who he is, as a non-negotiable condition for him to father your child, then you have conspired to betray your child before they are born (much like surrogacy) - if you see it from a child’s right perspective.

Discussion of this aspect of children’s rights is tacitly verboten in certain feminist circles, a vague slippery slope argument that ‘if you give children rights relating to their parents, then that leads to rights of the foetus, which leads to anti-abortion’ or, you are anti-lesbian or homophobic about lesbian mothers.

KJK is of the children’s rights bent on this issue - in the way she couches certain arguments - she once, a while back, said words to the effect that women who identify as men and do not want to be known by their own children as mother (instead wanting to be called father), shouldn’t be allowed to have children, since their are cruelly denying their child of a mother.

Shinyredbicycle · 16/11/2022 19:51

I'm not going to reply to you beastlyslumbers. You don't seem to understand what 'repeat' means, but are very good at doing it,

TinselAngel the US is in a dreadful state, that is true. The mid-term results were a relief for many women. Roe vs Wade being overturned was truly terrifying for so many women. They really did get out and vote.

No, I don't think she should ignore women in the US (some are my family for one thing). I'm not sure that many women think that women's rights stop at their national border, do they?