Nightmare proposed trans policy at work

[GCWorkNightmare]

Work are consulting on a new trans and non-binary support policy. Policy states that trans people have the right to use whichever toilets and changing rooms they like and that anyone objecting should be educated and offered to use different facilities if they still object. When I queried it I was told that the Landrover case confirmed this as law.

Pointed out that this discriminated against women of some religions, victims of VAWG etc but they’re holding firm.

Can anyone give me info/links to refute this?

They also want a category of special leave without limits for trans people.

We are a National non-unionised company.

Sex Matters are probably the people to contact about this

sex-matters.org/your-rights-at-work/

The misrepresentation of the EA regarding toilet and changing facilities has been misinterpreted by pro trans organisations for years, leading to the tensions we have today. Men who call themselves women have been convinced that they have the right to use the women's facilities and therefore have pushed back hard against the women who say no.

Should have proof read!

The misrepresentation of the EA has been promoted by...

Definitely contact Sex Matters. They have resources and can give you specific advice. Your workplace doesn’t get to overwrite the actual existing laws in this country.

Special leave without limits? How will they check that the people applying for this are "really trans"?

We really need some sort of women’s legal service to deal with this sort of nonsense. If any lawyers wanted to set this up I’d be delighted to help crowdfund.

IANAL, but I’d refer them to the Health and Safety at work Act Regulation 20, provision of sanitary conveniences www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm
Ask how they are planning to offer you a women only toilet (‘woman’ in the Act clearly referring to sex).

I understand the Jaguar Landrover case was in a lower court so did not set precedent, so it’s not relevant.

They are misinterpreting the Equality Act if they think it obliges them to allow a trans identifying male to use female facilities - they are allowed to invoke an an exemption for reasons of privacy and dignity. The EHRC guidance is here:
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/separate-and-single-sex-service-providers-guide-equality-act-sex-and-gender

(As I said I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know if this bit of law is strictly relevant as I don’t know if workplace toilets count as a service, but it’s good to read it to counter the widespread and incorrect Stonewall interpretation of the law).

I would also remind them that there is no hierarchy of protected characteristics, so they are obliged to consider the interests of women and people with protected beliefs (eg Muslims and Gender Criticals), as well as trans people.

Hopefully a lawyer will be along soon with more advice.

I have never heard of the Landrover case so I looked it up. It was a ruling in 2020. There has been water under the bridge since then (eg that EHRC document mentioned above is dated 27.04.22). Is your HR department fully up to date?

Take the piss

Call in sick say your trans therfore they cannot discipline you

Demand the same pay as your male college as your a man therefore they owe you

What on earth is the thinking behind the special leave aspect?

What "different facilities" are offered to those who object?
Why can't these facilities be offered to those who want to use female facilities inappropriately?

How exactly do they intend to educate women out of being autistic, traumatised, having PTSD, or coming from a faith or culture that precludes using a facility where a male is? How the male identifies does not stop them being male.

And how do they intend to educate all female people into this belief that their privacy, dignity, comfort, feelings, individual needs, beliefs and accessibility must come second to the wishes of any male person? Isn't that just plain sexist discrimination that penis people are more important?

So work aren't actually consulting, are they? Someone has made their mind up about what's going to happen and is pushing it through. Definitely contact Sex Matters. If this is a big company, it may well be that other employees have been in touch with SM already. sex-matters.org/contact/

Sex Matters has a bit of info about this case:

sex-matters.org/posts/case-law/taylor-v-jaguar-land-rover/

The Equality Act is complex because of two things. One is that it's not at all clear what "gender reassignment" means, and whether it covers, for example, a man who likes cross-dressing. The other is that it's not clear whether the protected characteristic of sex refers only to biological women or to biological women plus biological men who hold a gender recognition certificate.

Even allowing for all that, your workplace needs to have a better understanding of the clash of rights. Religion is one of the protected characteristics, so if the new, shiny pro-trans policy adversely affects Muslim or Jewish women, they could be breaking the law.

a category of special leave without limits for trans people

Going against the grain here, but this sounds fucking brilliant. We're all non-binary, which is trans, so everyone can therefore go home forever on full pay. Hooray!

DrDinosaur's explanation is very good. And it is really worth remembering that the Jaguar Landrover case did not set a precedent.

The beauty of Judge Tayler, the employment judge in the Forstater case, making such a stupid judgement was that it then went to the High Court, and their ruling does set a precedent.

And what right do they have to assume that women either want or need to be educated about this? furious at the implication we're all ignorant little girlies who need to be taught how to think right.

OP. What is the special leave conditions? Is there a limit of time? For what? Because these special conditions surely need to be available to all other groups, such as people with disabilities that need such provisions, carers etc

They also want a category of special leave without limits for trans people.

Isn’t this also discriminatory against none trans people?

As an aside, what JLR did quietly in response to that case was to refurb all the toilets to be unisex individual cubicles with lockable floor to ceiling doors with each cubicle containing a separate sink, mirror and hand towels etc, so in effect individual bathrooms. Really helped as trans colleagues couldn't complain as they could use any toilet, but feels super safe as a woman (there are big airy "entrances" to the toilet areas). So unless your workplace is prepared to provide something similar, they should really rethink!!

Sorry I don't have any academic advice but from a practical perspective I wonder if women are missing the obvious? Peaceful resistance can be achieved simply yet powerfully. Just refuse to use the toilets and piss on the floor instead. If we all started taking this sort of action then maybe progress could be made against this Alice in Wonderland nonsense we are having to endure?

'educated' is a bit 'Re-education through labour' isn't it.
I'd contact Sex Matters and ask for help giving the most robust response you can. I'd also consult a lawyer.

Can I ask the thread: Seeing as the Equality Act allows for an exemption for reasons of privacy and dignity, what is the point of it allowing trans-identifying individuals to use the facilities for the opposite sex in the first place?

@boddidoil isn't that what some tw or other said they were going to do? Imagine we could wind up with a situation where nobody is using the loos. Everyone is urinating and defecating on the floors outside beautiful, pristine and completely empty toilets.

The obvious, easy answer is to provide gender neutral spaces, respecting TQ+ wishes to not use a sex based space, AND retain some sex specific spaces for those not comfortable or able to use a mixed sex space. This meets all needs equally.

It will however very likely involve having to be firm that male employees must respect the inclusion needs of female employees and not enter a female only space. They must respect other people's needs in the same way that their needs have been respected. If there was this kind of mutual tolerance and reciprocation instead of a flat demand for supremacy there would be no problem.

Part of me wants them to go ahead and implement unlimited leave for people with indefinable conditions.

They might be pleasantly surprised to see how many people feel supported enough to come out as non-binary, agender, gender-free, bigender etc in such a welcoming workplace!

Of course, they'll then need to specifically employ "cis" people in order to actually do the work while everyone else is on leave. Which could cause issues....

They do say that dissenters will be found an alternative toilet. I would suggest that all females who do not want to share with a male complain and use the alternative.

It will send the message home very quickly. Although, by the sounds of it, some re-education will be done. You could all sign up at once and make it a bit of a party.

Part of me wants them to go ahead and implement unlimited leave for people with indefinable conditions.

I know of cases where people have been off for years now. Because they come back for a week and then a new batch of special leave kicks in and they are off again. And the organisation is fearful of trying to find a solution. So the team is a member short and cannot recruit even a temporary replacement.