Scottish hospitals warned over isolating transwomen

[filphone]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-hospitals-warned-over-isolating-transwomen-dwc6dwvw5

"literally change your genetic expression.."

What genetic expression specifically?

Hey @EvilBee , before you really flounce, could you answer a question that has never been answered please?

If a male knows that being in a female single sex space may cause even one female distress, is that respectful? Should that be considered as a male having any respect at all for the female half of the population?

I think she means cosmetic not genetic expression perhaps ?

Although there are sone genes that respond to environmental factors

Not the sex ones though

I do find this quite sad, tbh.

People are being sold a crock. The possibilities and limitations (and risks, for that matter) of taking CSHT or having plastic surgery should be very evident and communicated clearly.

All of the attempts to suggest that sex is mutable must produce a lot of cognitive dissonace, that takes an enormous amount of mental energy to sustain.

It's just such a vague claim @midgetastic It could mean anything really.

I had someone argue with me in the Times recently that the fact that some scientists made knockout (of a gene or a control sequence known to be important in, iIrc, ovary development) mice in a lab means that sex change is possible in adults. It was mad.

Serious answers only please. I'm pretty sure even you don't think someone would go through YEARS of medication and therapy and surgery and legally changing their name/gender etc just to sneak onto a maternity ward to masturbate. Its probably easier to become a midwife.

well they wouldn't. And they don't. It's now reduced to 3 months and you're a woman the second you say you are.
But you know that.

I've recently had a two-week hospital stay (England). I categorically wouldn't recommend this.

And this was even in a space in which specific areas for the two separate sexes were properly designated. It was a traumatic injury ward in which many patients were immobile or barely mobile.

One particularly persistent creep still managed to find a way to encroach.

FrippEnos

Thank you that made me laugh :)

Happy to have raised a smile!

If sex change became possible we could cross that bridge when we get there

It would be truly fascinating to try and untangle nature and nurture

But we ain't there yet

FFS MarieVanArkle. I'm sorry. I hope you're all better. Hospital is bad enough without having to fend off creeps.

EvilBee

Weirdly enough, people are in hospital cos they're unwell - are you suggesting that predatory cis men are donning a skirt then making themselves unwell so they can attack women?

They don't have to make themselves ill. This thread and others have shown cases, in which such men have actually assaulted, creeped out by leering / masturbating and actually raped actual real, live women. Women have been raped in hospitals by men pretending to be women.

Why do you dismiss and minimise, or ignore it? Have you no empathy?

My kid is eight. Even as recently this as that, this bizarre dystopian fantasyland hadn't yet taken root.

The worst we had to worry about was the Bounty Reps. And I thought they were a pain in the arse and a real problem - one stemming from misogyny in that it was considered okay to hard-sell to vulnerable female patients - at the time.

Who could have anticipated how much worse was just around the corner?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3387853-Any-evidence-of-assaults-etc-on-women-only-hospital-wards

That thread has various links to incidents where transwomen have assaulted women in hospital.

It also has a story from Hamster - anyone remember Hamster? - who was a transwoman who used to visit who'd been put in a female ward and specifically asked to be moved to a side room so as not to disturb female patients, because Hamster was well aware of their sex and the likely effect on female patients:

'I've actually had experience of this. I was admitted to hospital about 3 months ago via A&E.

I'm transsexual (with diagnosed GD) but currently on a surgical waiting list. I have no GRC, but one is in "the pipeline".

My local hospital's policy states I should "automatically" be placed into a female bay, and in fact they tried to do just that. I actually refused (for obvious reasons) - which left them rather bemused as their policy also stated they couldn't put me in a male bay (and I also refused to be put in a male bay).

I ended up lying on a bed in a ward corridor for 9 hours until a side room became available.

The bed manager couldn't actually get his head around the fact that I didn't want ill/potentially vulnerable women feeling uncomfortable with me in the bay. He actually tried the whole "we could pull a curtain around...." tactic - again which I refused.

He also couldn't get his head around the fact I didn't feel safe in a male bay because of the potential risk of violence towards me from other men.

The system is ridiculous and clearly the default position is "if patient IDs as "female" / presents as "female" then patient MUST be female regardless. There is absolutely no safeguarding..

I did actually write to the hospital after the event but had a woolly response which gender/sex seemed wildly interchangeable... and this coming from a building FULL of allegedly medically trained people.'

Sorry, a transwoman who used to visit this board is what I meant to write.

The brainwashing is real here. You’ve been properly trained to brainwash as well. I used to be like you.

Growing a pair of breasts or a very large clitoris doesn’t change your chromosomes. Not will it change the fact that taking cross sex hormones will make you sick and shorten your life. I am very close to a detransitioner and she is still reeling from the effects years later. Her chromosomes and genetic expression are still very much the same thank you.

She is not able and never was able to sire a child like a man and she will never know what that is like. She is 25 and wears diapers and smells like urine all the time. Is this what is means to be a “man”?

Speaking of people who sire children why do we have to have ridiculously long awkward phases to describe them or order to avoid offending others? Can’t we just use the word that has been around for generations to describe them? You know… The word man? It’s a bit impractical honestly.

I know I know what I used to say during these conversations. “But not all men can sire children!” and that may be the truth… But there is another inconvenient truth here… “Not all men can sire children… but ONLY men can sire children.”

If you are a man then I assume it means you feel the need to wear lipstick and high heels and have long flicky hair?

“the ward is indeed female-only and that there are no men present”

They now they can't use male. Men they can argue is an identity. Male they can't get around hence why they don't use the term. This won't hold up, it is a lie.

Loving the way @EvilBee is changing the crucial point of this thread by referring to “poor trans staff at risk of abuse” when patients demand to be seen by “cisgender medical staff”. You really are very stubbornly refusing to see the issue here, aren’t you?

It’s actually literally, like, offensive. Literally.

My "high heels" gene must be under very tight transcriptional control despite all that estrogen surging through my body @MagpiePi

indeed.

I am going to post this link again

twitter.com/hen10freeman/status/1603022204467351556

to show how much danger trans carers can be in.

(apologies for the sarcasm)

Same here!
I repointed some brickwork this morning while wearing trousers, so my HRT dose clearly needs adjusting.

please feel free to ask for only cisgender medical staff

No one will do that, because it's meaningless gibberish. It's not about gender identity, it's about sex. We will continue to ask for female only medical staff as the NHS constitution states is a reasonable request, even if it can't be fulfilled. And that means only women, no male people of any gender identity.

I’m glad Violet repeated that old myth that men go through YEARS of medication and therapy and surgery and legally changing their name/gender etc, so itcan be corrected here.

A lot of people still believe that, and therefore think transitioning is a major commitment involving a huge investment of time, effort and physical health. Not something anyone would take lightly.

Whereas in reality, as OldCrone correctly says, a man just has to say he’s a woman and no one dares challenge him.

So yes indeed, a man who gets off on violating women (physically or psychologically) would happily say those for words in return for a free pass into a women’s ward.

those for words - those four words: “I am a woman”.