'Misgendering' cannot be discussed?

[Redebs]

It seems we are not allowed to discuss this

@Waitwhat23

This must put lesbians in a particularly vulnerable situation with regard to on line dating. It must be difficult enough to come out and explore your sexuality without the added danger that your date has unexpected genetalia.

Surely homosexuality is by definition attraction to a member of the same sex. I am not gay but I presume that there is an innate sexual attraction to a person with similar genitalia (amongst other things) that denies the concept of being gay.?.(How else.could it be meaning fully defined?)

f Does the LGB community effectively disband as everyone is gender fluid and can identify as any gender you like making terms like gay or lesbian effectively meaningless?

Define not deny

If I remember rightly @picklemewalnuts It used to be the case that we kind of prided ourselves on not reporting unless it was really abusive or personal be wise we didn’t want to sink to the monitors levels but as time has gone on and the amount of deliberate merailing, sealioning & reprribg of threads in AIBU so they get shunted off to the naughty corner, has increased I’m very much in fuck it mode now & will report

If a transgender woman defined as being lesbian i.e. attracted to women can that make any.sense at all.when it comes to defining lesbianism? The extension of the argument would be that the woman in the scenario accepts being a lesbian but dates someone with all the characteristics that define her as not being gay. The logical twistiareare.quite bizarre.I

When a transgender person dates they seem to have to adopt a sexuality (hetero/homo) that fundamentally does not fit with the definitions of these sexuality types removing the need for these terms hence can you have T in LGBT?

It means that women pay a premium for everything.

I wanted to stay in a hostel in a European city, but even in a 'female dorm' I don't feel safe that there won't be a man in there, so I don't go. It costs me more to stay in a single room or apartment, but at least I know I don't have to share with a man.

I don't book a 3-berth or 6-berth sleeper train because I don't want to share with males and there is no way of guaranteeing that 'female only' means just women. So I pay more for a single berth.

I don't go to the swimming pool anymore because the female changing rooms don't mean female only. I don't go to the gym for the same reason.

And so on.

This is all because of calling males 'she' and 'her'. Of course it causes harm.

Yes, as far as I can follow this, 'genital preferences' are transphobic, and people should work hard to overcome them. Lots of examples in this article. medium.com/@rogerdubar/no-your-sexual-preferences-are-not-transphobic-8808b8ec2cd0

I think this is the position. It makes no sense to me and I don't understand how it hasn't been firmly knocked back by all concerned, but here we are. Gender identity trumps sexual orientation. Biological sex is irrelevant until someone wants a baby, when miraculously they all know exactly whose services are needed.

Male human, sexually attracted to female humans, identifies as a male = straight or heterosexual man.

Same person, now identifies as a woman = lesbian. Women, i.e. female humans, who are only sexually attracted to other women are now expected to include this male in their dating pool. They are told they can get used to male genitalia if they just work at it. Sickening and very obviously homophobic against lesbians.

___

Female human, sexually attracted to female humans, identifies as a female = lesbian.

Same person, now identifies as a man = straight man. Does this make any lesbian who has a relationship with this person a straight woman?

Male human, sexually attracted to male humans, identifies as a male = gay man.

Same person, now identifies as a woman = straight woman. As above, does this make gay men who have sex with this person into straight men?

_

Female human, sexually attracted to male humans, identifies as a female = straight woman.

Same person, now identifies as a man = gay man. Expects to be included in the dating pool of gay men. As you might expect, gay men are proving very resistant to this idea, and are getting far less grief for their stance than lesbians in the equivalent position. Obviously, gay men are not at much risk of violence from trans men, whereas lesbians unfortunately are at risk from trans women, as from all other males.

Probably my fault the last thread got flamed. Sorry!

Rachel Dolezal came up when someone compared reporting misgendering when the person wasn't present, as being logically equivalent to reporting racism when the victim was not present.

And hospitals will simply lie to women's faces -

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-hospitals-warned-over-isolating-transwomen-dwc6dwvw5

You'd have thought they would have learned some lessons after this but it seems not -

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

Romance languages are tricky as everything is either male or female. As foreigners we often make mistakes and sometimes get corrected by others but in a helpful kind of way. The only aggressive coercive response comes from TRAs when we refuse to use the preferred words. It is the fact we refuse that they don’t like as in any other case it really doesn’t matter!

@ToGanymedeAndTitan

Very true. Threads that bully those who share a different view are deleted, Ives had very derogatory comments stating I'm wrong on gender issues. I have first hand knowledge of gender dysphoria and know it is very much real, being told it isn't is bullying, the same thing as the pro trans lobby is accused of. Whilst having an adult discussion on the possible options for practical arrangements seems impossible here.

Most of us are more understanding of both sides but that doesn't mean we can't be uncomfortable with certain things (open changing rooms without cubicles is my personal bugbear as I've had an encounter six foot person with an appendage in one, no threat to me but I can't I see it! whereas have no issues with cubicled changing villages) We can be anywhere on the spectrum I suppose, but here there's people who can't understand that. Feminism has other causes too!

@mids2019
Absolutely online dating is now impossible for Lesbians with all the men there. The exception is Sall Grover's Giggle app
I will be frank; women's bodies are beautiful and sexually appealing ; male bodies physically disgust me.
Men also are different socially. I have zero romantic interest in them.
The Lesbian community is now underground and yes the point was to force us to dissolve and be pansexual.

What really annoys me about the "we want to be women so you must overlook our biology or get censored" movement is that half way around the world women are fighting to have even the most basic human rights.

Afghan girls were thrown out of Unis and schools and now gyms. 15,000 Iranian protesters are in prison, facing the death penalty, as the Iranian govt tries to crack down on protests after the death of Mahsa Amin who was beaten to death for wearing an "improper". form of hijab.

Afghan women aren't even allowed to walk in the park now, according to a news item I saw this week. The Taliban had specified that women could walk in parks on certain days and men on others. Now the women are banned altogether.

Quite. Shut up and provide hetero sex on demand. We don't care if you enjoy it, in fact no interest whatsoever in your feelings about it, you're not a reciprocal partner in this situation, you're just a body that male people feel entitled to use. So overcome your 'genital bias' (homosexuality) and 'learn to cope'.

This is apparently, in the interesting minds of those who believe this, neither conversion therapy, nor treating homosexual females like unpaid sex workers, or really quite abhorrent behaviour towards females to service a male desire.

And we're supposed to pretend that sex doesn't exist.

Get to fuck with that.

Lesbians who refuse to consider dating men in drag are regularly called 'transphobic'. Same-sex attraction being publically condemned is a step back to the 19th century, ffs!

It's why I came back as an older 2nd Wave Lesbian to MN after the first purge, to support Lesbians and my sisters in saying no to men in dresses in single sex spaces and stealing women's awards in sport and work.

And Sal had to prepare for the absurdly named 'Giggle v Tickle' court case while heavily pregnant because she dared to make her platform for females only - www.spectator.com.au/2022/07/tickle-vs-giggle/

The Mr Men book no one wanted...

"It will also compel women to submit to the state-mandated definition of a woman, which makes her not just a subset of her own sex class, but an underclass."

Precisely.
The hierarchy goes:

A - Men
B - Transwomen
C -Women

(because B is really part of A)

Not true that verbs in romance languages are gendered. Also interesting that most romance languages (but not French) are "pro-drop", i.e. subject pronouns can be omitted. That means speakers can often avoid "misgendering" by omitting subject pronouns.
I believe many Indian languages do inflect verbs according to gender but I don't know any detail.

How is this concept of gender dysphoria defined? It is a vague term reflecting unease or distress with a person's sex but without detail about how this specifically manifests. Does a boy for instance have some fundamental desire for breasts and a vagina; importantly how do they know they are missing physical characteristics they have never had?

I can understand same sex attraction (though not gay) and I can understand people wanting to dress in a diverse range of dress to some extent (David Bowie?). I think the limit to my understanding is how a person 'knows' they are of the other sex with no physical or cognitive experience of being the other sex. I give an example; if someone loses a limb there is the psychological condition of having phantom.limbs however the person has had previous experience of having that limb. In the case of transgender people this cannot be the case.

Do transgender people for instance wish to produce gametes of the opposing sex as that really is an impossibility. If a desire for lack of facial hair or body hair is a symptom of the dysphoria that can be readily addressed but is hair a fundamental difference between the sexes? Do transgender people wish different pelvic bones, the ability (or removal) of the ability to give birth or menstraute. Do transgender people miss an endometrium or prostate?

If one digs a little deeper into the condition the mental health considerations become more a focus that unrealistic and I'll defined change of physical characteristic s.

Absurdly named, in part, because the man adopted a porn name 'Roxy Tickle'.🙁

While language is always evolving, our brains cannot recognize grammar function rule changes that are exceptions for some people. yes DS would struggle with this linguistically, but also I am deeply uncomfortable with telling him that someone who is a man must be called she otherwise he will be punished in some way, and could even decide to be he one day and she the other day, when to him she and he are tied to biological sex.

Also if I tell him he has to, (even though at present he would not be able to get this concept), I do feel this is a safeguarding issue. I feel like this would be telling him that other people dictate facts for him, and there is no objective reality, and that other people can get him to conform to their ideologies.

@mids2019, some trans women say they want those body parts and functions, and many trans women on testosterone will talk about their menstrual cycle and having a period, by which they appear to mean having mood swings and some sort of cramp and the urge to lie down and eat chocolate. The absence of actual menstruation, i.e. shedding blood, is apparently just a detail.

Others will talk about the possibility of womb implants and experiencing pregnancy. The incredible complexity of the female reproductive system and in fact the entire female anatomy appears to escape them. As others have said here before, it's not plug and play!

Then we get the ones that claim to be able to breastfeed. A male person in normal health cannot lactate, so this means taking a cocktail of medication, all of which of course passes to the baby. There is no peer-reviewed evidence that this is safe for the baby nor that a baby could be nourished solely on this milk, nor on the effect it has on the baby's mother, who is shut out of breastfeeding if her male partner wants to do it.

@mids2019 as I understand it, gender dysphoria is a serious mental health issue, and fairly rare. It is not what most trans ideologists are pushing, and shouldn’t really be linked in the same way.