Sex Equality and Equity Network - Gender crit network for civil servants.

[fromorbit]

Important new initiative for government workers. This is where a huge fight back is going to happen in behind the scenes government, in memos and meetings. If we don't win in the civil service, it doesn't matter how many demos or cases we win, how many twitter threads we write, sooner or later sex differences will be erased. If you work in government/public sector get involved asp.

seen-network.uk/

"We are happy to announce the launch of our new UK cross-government staff network, the Sex Equality and Equity Network.
SEEN is a staff network committed to promoting and supporting sex equality and equity between women and men in our workplaces, and helping all staff to thrive at work and fulfil their potential. The focus of our network is on challenging sex discrimination and upholding rights and protections that relate to sex (including the protections provided to those with the protected characteristics of sex, pregnancy and maternity and sexual orientation, as set out in the Equality Act 2010). We recognise that to achieve this and ensure sex equality and equity sometimes requires treating women and men differently, according to our different rights and needs.

We are also committed to the protected belief (covered by the protected characteristic of religion and belief in the Equality Act 2010) that biological sex is binary and immutable, that biological sex matters for both women and men in our everyday lives, including for our rights and needs in the workplace, and that biological sex must not be conflated with, or replaced by, the concepts of gender or gender identity."

I wonder when they're going to have Old Disabled Women Week? I'm feeling erased.

Any other civil servants partly delighted and partly paranoid that this is a massive TRA phishing exercise?

I'm following the reopened thread. It's a rather hostile environment that I definitely don't feel comfortable posting on. Really glad to see fellow colleagues on here!

So pleased to see this development for women civil servants who have been on the receiving end of extreme levels of bullying and intimidation for some years. Back in 2019 this thread displayed the coercive control being used, going so far as to lecture women about the facial expressions and body language that are required from them when encountering a male (self identifying as a woman) in women's facilities like toilets and changing rooms:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3520371-civil-service-trans-policy-what-can-i-do

Thanks all for pointing me to that DEFRA yammer thread, just read through the responses and wow, some of the stuff is unbelievable!

All the usual talking points- apparently it's totally proved by science that sex is not binary, MRI shows who's trans, GC people called transphobes, 'how can it possibly be legal to hold those opinions' etc etc

I didn't dare support the one brave poster publicly, talk about creating hostile environment

Not a CS but this thread makes me happy. I thought we'd lost all critical thinking within our institutions but apparently not.

Really happy to see this, good news.

I missed the conversation on the SEEN yammer post, but I saw the later one written by an individual and the comments on there were depressing (except one brave voice!)

I have requested to join, I can't deny a small part of me is afraid of being 'outed', but I remind myself that 20 odd years ago I thought being outed as a lesbian would be the end of my life. In 20 years time everything will be different for us.

Would love to know if anyone from my department has joined, but don't want to post where so that's no help.

I've seen similar in women's groups last year to what DEFRA are seeing. Those holding opposing views got away with using slurs and being hateful and those defending sex based rights were just silenced.

Great initiative especially as my civil service department has decreed that its unacceptable to express gender critical views at all at work.

Have they decreed that all talk about ideology, trans rights and gender woowoo is banned Elephant? Or is it just raising issues about facts, women's rights and child safeguarding they're trying to silence?

Yes, "gender identity belief" is on the list of beliefs you're allowed to hold and express.

"Gender critical" beliefs are allowed to be held (very generous) but not expressed.

Almost as if they think that Forstater never happened.

Have they actually written that down Elephant?

If they have please send it to Sex Matters. These bullies really need to be exposed and held to account for this coercive behaviour (exercised while funded by the tax payer)

@MrsOvertonsWindow Do you think it would be worth sending some screenshots of the comments that are allowed to stand on that yammer thread to Sex Matters as well, as they genuinely made me feel afraid of showing my support to the lone brave voice and unsafe to voice my legally protected belief?

On the other hand I wonder if seeing that apparently it's been proved by science that sex is not binary may make some people dig deeper into it.

Really disturbed by the vitriol of some of the posts on there though

Yes, I think the more publicity that these bullies get the better. It's unacceptable that anyone in the civil service behaves in this way towards colleagues. The press might be interested? The Times, the Telegraph and the Mail are now aware of what's happening and regularly pick up incidents like this.

Yes, they have. A member of the exec has said that explicitely. Thankfully a number of colleagues are on the case with HR.

I don't know if anyone will be interested, but I am going to try my best to set up Seen-Wales. If any of you are willing to volunteer to help and work for Welsh Gov, please let me know. I understand that we're all anonymous on here so you may be reluctant to share details (and I have name changed recently which may not help!) but I hope some of you may be willing to trust me.

Could you counter the charge over “inclusion “ with the observation that it’s important to be inclusive of women?

The only way this shit is “inclusive “ is if women are overlooked.

This is chilling - but also somewhat confusing: I don't know what code they're referring to, because the Civil Service Code is about integrity, honesty, impartiality and objectivity. Not 'inclusion'.

Many might argue that SEEN is a lot better aligned with the tenets of the CS Code than its detractors. I'd like to think the CO process was undertaken thoroughly and on a fully informed basis.

So in many ways that sounds like a dangerous overreach from the LGBT network.

At the same time I think it is a genuinely worrying context, and I wouldn't trust that the unions would have our backs in this. (Using 'our' v broadly as I'm not properly involved at all although have requested to join.)

Finally, I'd strongly advise that any CS with concerns about how their own Departments are handling this use the proper whistleblowing processes rather than sharing screenshots with GC organisations as suggested up thread.

Finally, I'd strongly advise that any CS with concerns about how their own Departments are handling this use the proper whistleblowing processes rather than sharing screenshots with GC organisations as suggested up thread.

I agree. Doing so would risk disciplinary consequences, and also expose colleagues visible in the screenshots to potential backlash.

I think it’s helpful for everyone if this provokes more discussion. Sunlight n all.

also, how one group responds to believing itself to be in disagreement with another tells its own story. Especially in a professional setting.

long time activists or people who have felt marginalised will probably believe themselves to be on top of issues - but are more like to have been in a bubble of corroboration. Again, more discussion will be good.

And the lgbt group mentioned upthread should be mindful that the proposal is for a new network, not to change the one they have.