When did this board become a "safe space"?

[OmiOmy]

Long time poster here, name changed.

I've recently seen this board as being described as a "space space"? This has happened a few

Wikipedia says The term safe space refers to places "intended to be free of bias, conflict, criticism, or potentially threatening actions, ideas, or conversations".

Well, going by that, it's hardly a safe space, is it? We have robust discussions here that are rarely seen on other parts of the internet.

I don't know, I feel cross and disheartened to hear the term "safe space" being ascribed to this board as if we're too fragile to cope. Ugh.

Instead I would describe this board as broadly supportive, wouldn't you?

I figure any posters who genuinely believe that they engage in 'healthy discussion and debate' when they use terms such as 'echo chambers' and other disparagements against other posters probably have little intention at all in having a 'healthy discussion and debate'.

It is pretty hilarious to see them pretend otherwise though.

Indeed, it does come across as you MUST agree with me bigots, or else!

I love the irony of this post saying you're an echo chamber and you don't allow debate and then proceeding in subsequent posts, arguing/debating, thereby proving it's not an echo chamber and we do allow debate.

OmiOmy

You are missing something, sadly.

That posts pointing out the hypocrisy and the hyperbole is writ large will be considered and portrayed as 'a pile on' and hostile and defending the echo chamber.

That is way it works from what I gather. Happy to be corrected.

Robustness is not abuse. Abuse should be reported.

Also @picklemewalnuts has stated my own learning curve on many things on this board. "But..." goes through "I'm not quite getting it" to "oh I see". Surrogacy was a big one I had never thought about.

That doesn't mean, however, that I agree with everyone else. I have my own lines and may compromise on some things or be more firm on other issues. This board allows me to clarify my own thinking.

Your and Datun's posts (and others) are probably considered to be hostile by those particular posters, only because both of you are so good at picking apart their words, and being able to bat it back with your own strong arguments. The fact that they can't back up their words is on them and they have so option except to cry "pile on". It happens on Twitter all the time too.

I would see it as a compliment, if I were you. There are many reading and seeing exactly what is happening and being persuaded.

Surrogacy is a great example. Because you need to then acknowledge that it is not just surrogacy, it is then donor eggs where donors receive any incentive to donate.

You can silo it to 'surrogacy', but that then ignores the area that many consider more fluid. And of course, posters have been told that it is a form of homophobia to not support the exploitation of women's bodies for their reproductive capacity.

Thanks OmiOmy for the advice.

It is my own need to find the truth of the arguments that mean that I do indeed pull apart and work through posts to understand them better. I read most links posted as well. I need to understand the arguments and how they are developing on all aspects.

Because I struggle with dishonesty, disingenuity and deliberate misrepresentations.

@Helleofabore @OmiOmy

Yes you are right I have become defensive on this board because anytime I've tried to discuss I've been shut down. But yes tbf defensive is probably not a good starting point.

I don't disagree with a lot of your views, if I did I could understand your response abit better. I just see some grey areas and any attempts to discuss is not accepted. The group has a very rigid specific way of thinking and are not open to considering anything beyond that.

But I suppose this group doesn't have to be a place of debate in the same way that a lots of the groups on mn are not debate groups. So maybe it's a supportive place for people who share the same views. A safe space one might say.

And I don't dislike jk Rowling

And thank you I have absolutely reported abusive posts in the past and they have been removed.

autie

Surely, if anything, the past two months have shown that there is plenty of variations of opinions on this board. It may seem to be wall of singular opinion if your opinion is entrenched that gender should be prioritised at all times.

This is a publicly open forum. There will always be posters who will be abusive, but it would be dishonest to hold those posters up as representative of FWR.

I hope that if you do actually engage in other threads that you might take on board that posts that do seek to disparage will receive push back. And why shouldn't it. It sets the tone for how a poster wishes to engage.

In saying that, I have seen posts from people who hold a different view who respect other's opinions and don't resort to those disparaging tactics and a lively discussion can be had.

Can you explain what you mean by 'group' here please?

Do you mean topic/board or do you mean an actual group of posters?

@KozmicBlue topic/board. Sorry if tha wasn't clear.

An area of my thinking that has developed in this board concerns abortion, autie.

I am really struggling to get my head around 'as soon as possible, as late as necessary, No Debate!'.

I have so many problems with that and am not alone, I know.

However the alternative is forced birthing. Even more abhorrent.

My sons will never have any control over any future babies they may conceive, it's a sad but necessary fact. No matter what a great dad they might make, they have no right to inflict childbearing on a woman.

Anyway that's a digression, but an example of an area where initially the boundaries on here look uncomfortably harsh.

Another shocker for me was that we don't have to soften our differences. We can state them as bluntly as we like. That was a really hard adjustment for this people pleaser.

picklemewalnuts
But isn’t not and you have exactly proven my previous post. The alternative ISN’T forced birth!! Because we don’t live in an absolutist world. It’s only on this board. The debate can (& should) be abortion but within limits and the debate is around those limits but we cant ever get to that because your stuck with this absolutionist nonsense. And it’s not even then consistent … because the abortion bodily autonomy no matter what then becomes not when it comes to surrogacy when suddenly women don’t have bodily autonomy and can’t do what they please with their own bodies.

i attempted to join the surrogacy ‘debate’ where all but 2 posters just repeatedly agree again and again that all surrogacy was bad and should be banned. or in my So great was there shock at there being 2 of us questioning the bodily autonomy / not bodily autonomy that I was immediately accused of a sock puppetry because there couldn’t possibly be TWO of us with a differing opinion and little engagement in the actual debate. Hilarious!!

Some of the posts here are the definition of irony.

They both claim that there is no hive mind or echo chamber but also then state what posters must or must not think
“Surrogacy is a great example. Because you need to then acknowledge that it is not just surrogacy, it is then donor eggs where donors receive any incentive to donate” No we don’t actually! You may think that but that is your opinion stated as always as fact when it isn’t!! That is what debate is.

or I only fully understood the debate once I’d been told how to think.

OmiOmy do you geneuinely believe that the the response to auntie (or me) on this thread represents a debate (thus ironic)?

I think the over use of the term 'safe space' is like the ridiculous over use of 'valid'.

Ten years ago, if I heard someone say valid they were probably asking if a train ticket could be used on a particular train.

Now, every other thing is about stuff, people, topics being 'valid' or 'validated'.

Same with safe space, after you've heard ninety billion & two people wanging on about how they need a safe space to clip their toenails, you start using it ironically back at them.

Before you know it, instead of telling your teen to get out of your bedroom because you want to have a lie in for half an hour on your day off, you find yourself telling them that you are in your safe space as you need some me time.

Brokendaughter
😂😂😂😂👍

Are you me?

Seriously though, I'm always piping up to say I don't understand or can you explain more. It can feel intimidating, especially if I don't have strong views or if I never really thought about it before or even if I do have strong views, but posters are always willing to explain, sometimes quite bluntly. Most times I can see the logic and think yes, sometimes begrudgingly because it was delivered too bluntly (pride is hurt ) and other times, I think nope, no way.

I guess what I am saying is I am always, always challenged to think and clarify my opinions, whether I post or not and I've been here for 7 years.

OmiOmy do you geneuinely believe that the the response to auntie (or me) on this thread represents a debate (thus ironic)?

I think that both you and autie have been able to express yourselves and say you think people are entrenched in their views and how your own views have been dismissed.

The responses are a mixture from blunt to sardonic to mild.

People are entitled to their opinion, if they think someone says something insightful, or does something worthwhile, and it affects the issues we discuss, or interest people on the board.

Support threads are pretty much by definition a place for certain people to talk together, That doesn't mean the whole board ought to be run that way, with people policing, or being policed, as to what they say.

That's just another version of the kind of "safe space" most people here have had bad experiences with, and the opposite of what many posters say they value about discussions here. And it's another version of "be kind" as much as it's being put in the language of "putting women first".

You are free to say that on any discussion where you think someone is being insufficiently cautious about something or some person or is making a misguided statement.

That is totally different than saying people can't discuss or have views that you disagree with because you don't happen to think they are insufficiently centering women.

And they are of course free to say that you are dismissing someone who is saying something true or useful for poor reasons.

I don't think FWR is an echo chamber, but critics are correct that if it were, that would be a bad thing, including for discussing the effect of GI on women.

Agh, excuse my double-negatives in the post above, I hope the intent is clear!

FWIW I would say that there aren't real debates about abortion on FWR or maybe even on MN - people self-censor so it tends to be a rather one sided discussion that doesn't reflect the views of the public, or even most women.