When did this board become a "safe space"?

[OmiOmy]

Long time poster here, name changed.

I've recently seen this board as being described as a "space space"? This has happened a few

Wikipedia says The term safe space refers to places "intended to be free of bias, conflict, criticism, or potentially threatening actions, ideas, or conversations".

Well, going by that, it's hardly a safe space, is it? We have robust discussions here that are rarely seen on other parts of the internet.

I don't know, I feel cross and disheartened to hear the term "safe space" being ascribed to this board as if we're too fragile to cope. Ugh.

Instead I would describe this board as broadly supportive, wouldn't you?

That should say "pretty unique for women to gather ..."

Absolutely.

You make some really interesting points about forced teaming, I hadn't thought about that and yes, a discussion is probably needed.

This was what bought about the debacle on twitter, I absolutely will not have trans widows force teamed with male transitioners of any kind. Many people were very shocked at my audacity in saying no, and drawing a very firm boundary.

I was told by flying monkeys that amongst other things, I needed to "grow a backbone". Fair enough Twitter is a bunfight, but a space like FWR should be more supportive of womens boundaries

There's a lot of talk about male detransitioners, and the impact they have on female partners. But where do the mothers, sisters, female relatives of those detransitioners go? Are they not allowed to come onto MN to discuss it because of trans widows?

Transition affects more than just partners.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying, and apologies if I've not been clear, the female relatives should absolutely be able to come here, and they won't be able to do do if we're praising their male relatives. I'm making the point just as much for them as for us.

And the same goes for female relatives of males who still identify as trans of course, not just detransitioners.

ReunitedThorns I would hope that female relatives would get support, but obviously, on a separate thread to trans widows, as they would have different experiences to those women who were/are in a relationship with trans identifying males.

I see these women as trans widows sisters, but many of the issues they face are different to ours. Eg to some extent they probably have to learn to live with it, whereas we can leave ( in most cases).

It's safe for discussion and confidential. If I'm unsure about something, in real life it can be hard to know how something is going to be perceived. It's not just about gc matters, feminism dies how more strings to its bow

And yet they keep coming here, searching for something to pretend to be offended by.

Ironically most "safe spaces" are the exact opposite. A word against the orthodoxy and you're booted/ on a list.

Anyone can come with whatever view they want here. They might throw their toys out of the pram, but they can still say what they want. Argue what they want.

For those who hate freedom of speech it's their worst nightmare. They cry at night wishing their was a block button.

It's a safe space for expressing strong views and disagreement, hopefully.

But I think the term "safe space" is triggering for many of us because it's close to the mentally of "words are literal violence!" and "your opinion/presence makes me feel unsafe!" - the kind of drivel trans activists come out with. And university side-rooms with soft toys and soothing music etc where the overgrown children can escape us terfs. Ugh.

FWIW this board is pro-women and any trans discussion is had in the context of the impact it has on women.

Male detransitioners aren't a feminist issue and I see no reason for the transwidows to have to move aside or put up with threads saying how great these men are.

I'm not sure it's possible to have the kinds of discussions we have here about gender ideology without talking about male detransitioners. After all, we talk about transwomen fairly often. They are significant in GI and if we are seeing men, especially older men, detransition, that's significant too.

This board is supposed to have a feminist basis, and posters are expected to have that perspective in mind when posting. If threads are gushing about men who take an anti-feminist and anti-women stance, on a feminism board, is going to rub a lot of women up the wrong way. There are many men and women who come here to deliberately do that, to troll.

There are others perhaps where they are doing it from a "gender" perspective rather than a feminist perspective.

I agree with pickle that MN forcing all gender-ID-related conversion onto this board is a type of forced teaming.

I think that’s something that needs to be recognised in the feminist movement generally. Men, whether they’ve transitioned, detransitioned or not done either, should not be platformed at the expense of women.

You don't debate. You have your own narrative and shut down any opportunity for debate. Your posts are essentially you all agreeing with each other. Jk Rowling good, Emma Watson bad etc. So it is a "safe" space as it's a place you all say this stuff that no one else agrees with beyond yourselves.

I disagree with the Wikipedia definition. To me, a safe space is somewhere you can freely express your views. This would be in contrast to twitter, Facebook groups, etc where if you say anything contrary to the trans orthodoxy you get banned.

Talking about them, fair enough. Starting threads just to tell them how great they are, less so.

Again, anything can be discussed on MN.
The feminism board must centre women, yet sometimes we want to thank/offer support to a male GC ally.

Maybe we need to encourage such threads to escape across to chat instead of feminism. Despite the GC flavour!

And you have to have a pretty deep prejudice to think posts on this board revolve around either valorising or demonising Joanne Rowling or Emma Watson or any one at all.

It is exactly that hypocritical style of post from autie that IS about silencing debate. It is the typical ‘you are all mean monsters who write things I don’t agree with but all I can do is insult your contributions by minimising it to hateful gossip’.

“it is a "safe" space as it's a place you all say this stuff that no one else agrees with beyond yourselves”

Sounds like autie exists in a world of their own making if they genuinely believe that bit of projection.

“it is a "safe" space as it's a place you all say this stuff that no one else agrees with beyond yourselves”

This always makes me laugh.

'Yourselves', autienotnaughty, is the biggest gathering of women in history.

And I for one, am quite happy to find myself in agreement with them!

There are so many brilliant comments here and I haven’t had my morning coffee yet.

I just got this images in my head (when reading the title) of

a) someone posting on the board “Man here”, and proceeding to mansplain something he knew nothing about to one of the regular posters. I really don’t think he felt that “safe”.

b) and of the person managing to get post deleted because that person was concerned that their own penis not was welcome in women’s changing rooms (discrimination). And when we got it specified that NO penises were welcome which was allowed to stand. And the following jokes about “fragile penises”. That penis definitely did not feel safe either.

you all say this stuff that no one else agrees with beyond yourselves

and there is no nuance, on the threads there are a range of posters with a range of views and different ideas….i mean this whole thread comes from an original thread which posters disagreed on for goodness sake, and there are obviously posters who disagree completely

im ignoring the complete inanity of ‘no one else agrees with posters of FWR’

autienotnaughty
Yup. Absolutely no debate whatsoever. Thinking never evolves and everything in absolutes as there no room for nuance or recognition of complexity of competing issues / intersections. This is a ‘safe space ‘ for this group of feminist - fixed mind set with no interest of ever evolving the thinking.

Helleofabore
Projecting??! The poster says this board is an echo chamber - which it is are. And from that you write that
“It is exactly that hypocritical style of post from autie that IS about silencing debate. It is the typical ‘you are all mean monsters who write things I don’t agree with but all I can do is insult your contributions by minimising it to hateful gossip’.”
How on earth did you extrapolate that from her post.

Anyway, it’s easily disproved if those of us who occasional raise our voice to despair before getting shot down are wrong and this is indeed a forum of debate. Pick a thread, count the posters on it and then calculate the % of posters all agreeing / saying the same thing vs those who offer an alternative view. If this board represents feminism and encourages debate, what percentage would you expect the balance of competing opinions should be? And what actually is it.