I feel stupid for supporting trans activists and now I have no one to talk to

[Redead]

I might get flamed for saying this. I just had no one to be honest with. All of my friends are on the liberal trans rights bandwagon. If I was ever honest about my feelings they would eat me alive.

I've been doubting the movement for awhile but today I broke. I saw a post online in trans group where a detransitioner who was seemingly a happy transperson before was really raw and honest about how they wanted to go back to their original sex because they where having a lot of problems with their surgery and hormones and they had doubts before the transition. It's really terrible they now pee and poop in a bag. They and very young. They are 20. They've never had sex and feel they never will now. They walk with a cane now and the cross sex hormones are making them sick. I thought it was the most awful tragic story. I thought that the trans group would be supportive of them especially since they've been a loving member for so long. And who are we to tell them how to identify right?

Well... I was naive and stupid. Their replies were horrible. A lot of them started out with "That's a really sad sorry but..." Some of them told them they aren't trans and never were trans and they don't belong. Many of them accused them off internalized transphobia.

This person when through something horrible and they absolutely devoured them without a second thought. The mods deleted the post and they were banned from the group. I cried. The hypocrisy! So many of them going on about suicide and mental health problems and supporting one another when they are vulnerable. Well I can't possibly imagine a frame of mind and body when one is more vulnerable. But they treated this person like a leper.

I'm just horrified. I feel lost alone and I hate myself for fighting so hard for something that has turned into... This... I don't know what to call it. But it is awful.

Sorry for the rant. I don't know what I'm looking for from this post. If you got this far thanks for reading I guess.

I thought I had broken free from the thought control but I simply fell into the next best one.

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

I'm from a religious upbringing, though not as strict as yours. I'd also had quite a narrow experience in childhood - nice MC primary, single-sex grammar (full of MC kids). For me, OP, I think that university was a problem that restricted my thinking in a way I just didn't see. I know the idea is that it is all about meeting new people, learning new things and expanding your horizons. But, ime, I met a far wider range of people with a wider range of views in the first 3 months working in an office than I did in 5 years at university.

The “trans” view on the other hand often says that a male who likes dresses, make-up, and so-on is not “really” male.

And that's where it gets really confused. Because what if you are male and you like dresses, and the view is you're not "really" male - well does that make you "really" trans? And does being "really" trans mean that you are supposed to want hormones and surgery? Like that poor detransitioner?

You can kind of see the disaster coming from a long way off.

There was a link on Glinner's substack to a YouTube by Cluniac commenting on a YouTube by a TM that lay in the house that Jack built.

The tm was commenting how important validation from everyone was, new name, new pronouns. Especially when you are likely to be having doubts yourself that you're really trans! Tbf, they did acknowledge this as a possibility but insisted if you are thinking you are trans it was most likely internalised transphobia.

It was so sad and so clever, they'd painted themselves into a corner.

I imagine if a teenager even thought this was a remote possibility they would choose to try to cope with the dysphoria rather than trying to fix it with surgery.

But... teenagers are not known for rational decision making. Or avoiding risks. Or foresight. Or listening to warnings when they want to do something. They can brush off even quite high possiblities of horrible danger. Risk can actually be quite attractive, makes them feel brave and grownup..

What does appeal to teenagers is people they can relate to, with stories that they can relate to. That's another reason why detransitioners are such a threat and have to be pushed out and silenced.

Mumsnet is safe in the real sense of the word, in that TRAs can't attack with impunity and aren't encouraged to find people in real life and harass them. Pile-ons (psychological assault on individuals) are stopped by the moderators.

It's not 'safe' in the sense used by people who think they are injured by hearing an opinion they disagree with. It promotes free speech and doesn't censor dissenting opinions. Thank god!

Teenagers find the "you're parents don't understand you" line very appealing too. They are (largely) trying to establish themselves as independent from their parents and other family. In most cases that is a healthy part of development. In some cases (where teens use drugs or engage in risky sexual behaviour) it is not healthy and there needs to be a "whole village" approach to ensuring teens don't do themselves irreparable harm.

Detransitioners cause a problem here too, because they are acting like the reformed alcoholics or ex-prisoners we sometimes invite in to speak to students in school. They are pointing out that the particular mode of rebellion and "independence" might not be such a good plan after all.

OP, you say All of my friends are on the liberal trans rights bandwagon. If I was ever honest about my feelings they would eat me alive.

Doesn't this tell you something depressing about your 'friends'? Don't you deserve people who actually like you for yourself, outrageous male-defying opinions and all? Or who at least would have a little sympathy? or take a moment to consider that you might have a point? or a fleeting thought along the lines of "I like Redead and she's never done anything disgusting before, so maybe I'll let that one pass."

My friends either argue vociferously or let my opinions pass (undoubtedly rolling their eyes), because they're, you know, my friends.

Have you read any of the virulent woman-hating stuff posted online every day by transactivists? Does this give you a hint that there is something wrong there?

I hope you can find better friends in your life, OP.

Don’t worry, OP. The vast majority of the human race don’t believe for one moment that TWAW, TMAM, whatever Starmer and Mordaunt and Biden say. The circles you have moved in are hot for it at the moment, but as the full horror emerges , they will start pretend they never, ever , supported it. Just like everyone in France in the sixties had been in the Resistance.

how many people have I managed to offend in this post? How soon before I am deleted? Never mind. Welcome to the world of sanity. You’.. fir right in.

It is self indulgent tosh. The perfect example of a person who needs to stop navel gazing and go out and do something useful with/for other people.

Congratulations on your new baby, Redead. It says a lot about the people in your group who made it all about themselves, complaining that you weren't centring them and their wishes. You'd failed to recognise that everything in the world revolves around them!

And I say that as someone who is childless, not by choice. If they can't rejoice in a friend's happiness, they are not really friends.

Mind you, when you look at extreme trans activists such as that person on twitter the other day declaring that they 'know all about' bra fittings and that women always have a bra on whilst being fitted, then you have to wonder whether they actually have any self awareness at all. I think it was Aidan Cumerford???

Anything to downplay the potential of a male being employed to fit bras. Very bizarre.

I'm sure they're very talented. What I took from that interminable interview (apart from a desire to never hear their music)....

Strange toed shoes -

While I read

@picklemewalnuts you win.

Thank you very much! I'm very sorry about your struggle with infertility. You are right or days a lot about their character. And as you have said above it does seem I've chosen my friends badly but hearing your words... Saying that I can find friends that love me even if I have opinions that they don't agree with... It strangely gives me hope. I've been struggling a lot with finding the courage to socialize with others. I think you healed a little bit of something inside me. Thank you. I won't forget your words.

Hugs, its hard to wake up and reslise that you have been under a spell.
It's often very hard to be outside and lose the freinds you thought you had, and the certainty that you were doing the right thing.

Just know that you are not alone, that there are many places where you can go to talk about and explore your concerns.
Some people still under the spell will need to distance themselves from you because they need to continue to be live and your doubts shake those beliefs.

Spinster.xyz is a great place to talk, like many poster have said detransition groups, and transgender trend have good resourses and support.

Many of us have lost freinds to this c, but ultimately friendship can never be about compliance, but about understanding and love. Sadly the spell often sucks the love out of people and demands obediance.

We are here and your compassion has woken you. It's going to be ok.
X

Got my first message deletion ☹️🤣

I'll try and be more polite - there are probably a lot of GC on Mumsnet because parents don't want their children incontinent and using canes to walk in their 20s!!! And once you research and find these things out, you become quite opposed quite quickly.

I hope both the OP and the person detransitioning can help each other and both find some peace and healing.

(Better? 😉)

Lol! I didn't even see the message before it got deleted. 😂

Yes this whole ordeal has definitely got me contemplating the future for my own daughter. Perhaps it wad meant to be so I could know how to protect my little one.

Also love that we both have Zelda names. Assuming yours is from the game franchise. 😁

I find it interesting how some prominent atheists have fallen.

Matt Dillahunty and Jimmy Snow are totally, "TWAW". The latter claims brain scans show male and female brains.

Both brought up in strict religious households, both ridicule the idea of a few words changing a piece of bread in to the body of Christ but totally accept that a man can become a woman without any words.

I've changed name for this, because I haven't told this a soul apart from my dp and my daughters dad. My recently just turned teenage daughter (13) came to me last year to say she's trans in a letter (she was almost 12). I freaked out but said nothing for a few days until I felt I could calmly discuss it with her. I'm gonna say I was in the same both as you op in regards to my friend circle, but I dont think ever bought into it any further than #bekind & politely agree since it didn't directly affect me. I feel like such a hypocrite but I just couldn't blindly follow the trend and let my child be the casualty of my fear of being on the "wrong side".
We spent hours discussing her "confession" & I was very cautious not to dismiss her because I was so afraid she would come to resent me. I will admit that before this confession I had noticed she had become withdrawn, not her usual self but I put it down to other changes going on. Her main reasoning was that she simply did not feel like a girl. So I asked her how she was so certain that she doesn't? I asked her what does it mean to feel like a girl? Her answers were filled with typical gender stereotypes, the kind of stuff women have spent centuries trying to shake off, I honestly could not believe she was trying to tell me that there is certain way to be a woman and and a certain way to be a boy. So we had a chat about how I don't feel like a woman, I just feel like me. I asked her how she could be certain she feels like a boy when there is no way she could know how a boy feels, there is nothing to compare her feelings to, she was simply her and not liking certain things other girls like does not then by default mean she's a boy.

Here's what's really shocking thing though, around a year (daughter was 11) before this confession we were watching tiktoks together and were on basically the LGBTQ subculture part of tiktok, just hoping through videos etc. My daughter had become very interested in the LGB+ movement since she had told me on her 11th bday that she liked girls, so I obviously supported her she got a pride flag, some pins she asked for, and just told her it didn't matter to me. Anyway while hoping tiktoks we came across a trans video and she asked me what trans was so I explained as best I could. Messing, I had asked "have you ever felt like your a boy in girls body?" and she looked at me a little disgusted and said no, so I quickly told her there's nothing wrong with being trans and she really shouldn't pull faces, some people just feel the way they feel & their not hurting anyone. So the confession a year later literally floored me as I always thought trans people knew they were trans (even if they didn't know the name for it) from very early ages. So the fact I had asked her and had gotten such a negative response made it all the more strange that only a year later she apparently does.

I'll be berated for this (breaching privacy) but I started going through her tiktok, and I couldn't believe how bombarded her feed was with trans tiktok same with her YouTube, I started watching some videos and they made being trans seem like the most interesting/coolest thing in the world. Trans women were repackaging what it meant to be a woman with emphasis on some pretty fucking stereotypical bs. The transmen videos showed off their scars and talked about how freeing and easier life was as a man. There was also this underlying victim hood energy mixed with vitue, that I'm sure as a teenager I would of been in awe of. With how tiktok algorithm works my daughter prob became curious after our talk about trans people and looked up some video before falling down the rabbit of "related content". I fucked up because I wasn't monitoring her content, and honestly even if I was I don't think I'd of told her to stop supporting trans content makers because you know #bekind I would of just seen it as her learning about a group of marginalised people.

So I decided to re-approach the topic by informing her of gender reasignment surgery, medications, not to embrace it but to bring about some truths that were missing in these videos. I had to remind her that people don't record the bad stuff, SM is only the polished side of people and their journeys & letting her read/watch detransitioning stories. Talking to her about how submerging herself in the culture is a kin to brainwashing, since as child she would be more impressionable etc. I told her she needed to come up for air. So I took away her main devices (I know this seems like a punishment but I genuinely felt that she needed a step back). This all happened at the end of summer that year and I made a deal with her that I would take the devices and we would see how she feels by Xmas. She wasn't overly happy, but she's not the sort to throw strops or act out. At first she started to double down and leaving some notes where I would find them on how she won't stop feeling this way, but after a couple of weeks her whole personality began to change she became way more happy, joined in more enthusiastically with family stuff, hung out with her friends more, started becoming interested in new things... by Xmas, like agreed, we talked about it again and she had done a total 180°, now it's not even an issue, her time online is now monitored and she now only spends time on tiktok watching "booktoks", the past year she's become more of a typical tween (now teen) girl, she's never been overly girly/neither am I, but she started asking for make up and handbags, she got e-girl penny piece hair and loves "academia aesthetic" so lives in pleat skirts and knit sweater vests. Honestly I can't believe this girl ever thought she was trans, she's become extremely feminist in her views also which I think is common for her age, talks about gender discrepancies (mostly how boys get away with more stupid behavior in school than girls) and single sex spaces and came home the other day livid because her history teacher (a man) had told the class women didn't work out side the home until after the 1920s, and basically said they had men to thank for that, he even ask all the girls in class what they want to be when they grow up and told each of them one by one that it wouldn't have been possible (think doctors/lawyers etc) so my daughter came home and wrote a 3 page list of jobs women had prior to 1920, making sure to include each job that her class mates had mentioned and gave a date that "the first women in that position" occurred (all were before 1920 ) along with numerous other common female jobs like maids, seamtresses and such that date back century's , she mentioned her own great grandmother owning her own textile company prior to 1920... he had also talked about roman baths and asked what the modern day equivalent of roman baths are for woman - his answer was a Spa and talked about how all women love a spa day 🙄 she told him that was a sexist stereotype & it's like saying all men golf. Her school is progressive and although some might see her behavior as a bit much, they are encourage to debate. Her teacher was actually pretty happy to concede on both fronts and I even recieved a positive note on her online dashboard for class participation afterwards.

I brought up the trans thing again recently, it's been over a year now, and she honestly called it "cringe" and doesn't know why she felt so strongly about it but she's said she doesn't feel that way now. We are very close and I was terrified I was going to ruin our relationship by not supporting her in the way I've seen other mums support their very young trans kids. I was wholly ready to jump right in her corner last Xmas if she had told me she still felt that way and I would of spent the rest of my life berating myself as a horrible parent if I was wrong. But I'm so glad I went with my gut. She is an amazing, beautiful, intelligent, funny, brave girl, I only ever want her to see her worth and I'm so horrified she ever thought she needed to be a man to be respected.

@Needaname1234567 ·

Wow, thank you for sharing.

That should be sent to every parent.

To say it was the most difficult period of my life is an understatement, I was terrified I was doing and saying all the wrong things. I had this immense fear I would end up pushing her away or further into this ideology, if only as a point to rebel, considering her age. My own SM was full of pro-trans sentiment and I remember crying one night when I seen a cartoon image, it was of a mum and dad supposedly cutting off the wings on their child's back, the cartoon was greyscale and the wings shaped like butterfly wings were trans colored and rainbow - the slogan read "don't be your child's first bully". I was afraid she would grow up and hate me and she would cut me out of her life for not being their for her.
She is my oldest, I had her very young (18) & raised her solo for 5 years, we have a very special relationship, I have 2 much younger dc, and I love all 3 equally but the bond with my oldest is different, we are 2 peas in a pod, I couldn't bare ever hurting her but I just couldn't stand back and watch her hurt herself either. Today I graduated uni and she gave me a card, what she wrote to me honestly made me cry it was so heartfelt and emotional, I'm so relieved I followed my gut but it has really opened my eyes to what's going on and now when read stories of trans children I can't help but wonder if those kids are just like my dd, lost in a sea of voices without guidance.

Need. You’ve described social contagion via SM exactly as it can happen - children get swept along by all the trendy cool stuff.
congratulations on your wonderful daughter and on graduating.

Might be wiping my eyes at Needanames story!