I feel stupid for supporting trans activists and now I have no one to talk to

[Redead]

I might get flamed for saying this. I just had no one to be honest with. All of my friends are on the liberal trans rights bandwagon. If I was ever honest about my feelings they would eat me alive.

I've been doubting the movement for awhile but today I broke. I saw a post online in trans group where a detransitioner who was seemingly a happy transperson before was really raw and honest about how they wanted to go back to their original sex because they where having a lot of problems with their surgery and hormones and they had doubts before the transition. It's really terrible they now pee and poop in a bag. They and very young. They are 20. They've never had sex and feel they never will now. They walk with a cane now and the cross sex hormones are making them sick. I thought it was the most awful tragic story. I thought that the trans group would be supportive of them especially since they've been a loving member for so long. And who are we to tell them how to identify right?

Well... I was naive and stupid. Their replies were horrible. A lot of them started out with "That's a really sad sorry but..." Some of them told them they aren't trans and never were trans and they don't belong. Many of them accused them off internalized transphobia.

This person when through something horrible and they absolutely devoured them without a second thought. The mods deleted the post and they were banned from the group. I cried. The hypocrisy! So many of them going on about suicide and mental health problems and supporting one another when they are vulnerable. Well I can't possibly imagine a frame of mind and body when one is more vulnerable. But they treated this person like a leper.

I'm just horrified. I feel lost alone and I hate myself for fighting so hard for something that has turned into... This... I don't know what to call it. But it is awful.

Sorry for the rant. I don't know what I'm looking for from this post. If you got this far thanks for reading I guess.

Sadly, this is seems to be more common a reaction than it should be.

I have read many detransitioners, in various stages of transition, feel traumatised by their treatment for even asking questions. Questions that signaled they were thinking independent thoughts that did not fit the group.

Or mentioning negative side effects.

Or mentioning doubts.

Those who do are living proof that shows the lies behind what amounts to propaganda. Those inconvenient truths behind the ‘low regret’ rates, the affirming only treatment plan suits most and should be followed without exception, that Puberty Blockers treatments are reversible etc.

We also see the attempts to disconnect people from their loved ones. The love bombing by the ‘glitter families’, the ‘we love you, your family doesn’t’ type approach.

That is very upsetting to hear that that young person was ostracized by the group they may well have relied on for support. I hope they find support else where.

I mentioned Keira Bell to a young woman embarking on the same journey.

'Ah, she just didn't think it through and made a mistake. I'm sure and I've wanted this for ages, so it's fine'
How long?
Ages. Over a year.

OP as other posters have said, you may find that there are some others in your group who have doubts.

The current research shows a tendency for the 18-28 age group to be one of the most intolerant in society. A group who cannot allow others to have wrong thoughts in their group, friends, family etc. All this means is that there will be others who have thought deeply and are uncomfortable but cannot be seen to not follow, as you are.

OP

Many years, probably a life time ago I was a clinical physiologist, I've found using the, "In medicine you have to record sex not gender to get accurate test results and appropriate treatment.

Sorry posted too soon, so it is important for the HCP to know.

Not many people will argue with that, and those that do, well they will not listen to anyone or anything.

It must have been eye opening to see how little these Genderists cared for the emotional welfare of the detransitioner.

The utter hypocrisy to guilt & manipulate people into silence because Trans people will self harm due to our words & opinions

But they are happy to tear that poor person apart then "TERF" them out of their group.

For me it was realising that a lesbian subreddit I used to occasionally glance at was closed down.

Was shocked that a harmless Reddit page could be just shut down like that....

Considering the depraved crap on Reddit that's when my gut realised something was not right

Didn't even know Reddit pages could be just shut down like that....

Setting the price for questioning the group so high is a way to block dissent. In scientology people who leave are called Suppressive and they are shunned (and worse).

Members of your group have to be vile to detransistioners to stop other group members following suit.

Welcome acrossthe golden bridge, op

This is such a clear, straightforward, and compassionate description @FaazoHuyzeoSix 👌

Detransitioners get attacked in the same way apostates get attacked in some religions.

OP in my opinion your friends are not on a liberal bandwagon - they want to think they are, but their actions are actually very illiberal. Can I ask what other aspects of the ideology you have come to see more clearly since being able to understand the inconsistencies and damage? Was there anything other than the detransitioners issue which started to make you worry about whether it is really the path to equality?

Hi Redhead, I haven't read all replies - I just wanted to say, I'm in the same boat in terms of friends I have that I made as a new parent, I spent a lot of time online while feeding etc and we all gravitated towards being the people your friends are now. I "switched sides" a good while ago now. I felt utterly embarrassed by all the things I'd shared online (my experience, I hope you don't feel this way - I believe it is cult like, we're creatures that stick to the tribe, whether we like to admit it or even recognise it, that's why cults have power) and I don't go on fb much at all now. I have a friend who is waiting for a referral for her child to gender services, the child is only just in school and autistic. My hopes are that the greater changes to services and investigation into the way children have been allowed to make lifechanging, self damaging decisions off the back of insidious internet influence, mean that her child hopefully won't be led down the same path.

I could go on, but I recommend the Gender: A Wider Lens podcast for a caring and nuanced approach to the gender ideology that's sprung up over the last maybe 10 years now. I am working really hard to not just do a 180 flip and think TRAs are the worst of the worst, and remember how I got into that mindset and the wider influences at play. It's a complex subject. In terms of friends - I would get off the internet, out of those spaces and just give yourself a bit of space. It's overwhelming, whichever way you approach the issue. Lots of posts on here have been helpful to me too but I try not to overdo it or I find myself at a loss as to how to proceed with my day. You will find that there are people who see things as you do. You may be able to keep the same friends. There's a term called "watchful waiting" used to describe a method of dealing with a child who decides they're trans or non binary, and it's oddly similar to how I feel I'm acting with my friends who are TRAs. I'm waiting to see how their influences shape them in future. It'll go one way or the other. Don't break down the relationships with them, just wait and see.

OP, I hope you're able to contact the detransitioner to offer support. They must feel very isolated.

For many TRAs the detransitioner experience is just unacceptable. It’s a fingers in their ears “la, la, la, I can’t hear you” response. It’s so threatening to the ideology, as it destroys their basic ideas.

For example, if a person is 100% sure they’re in the “wrong body” why would they change back into the wrong one? If they now say talking therapies would have helped them deal with the real issues, so not trans, that destroys the TRA idea that counselling/psychotherapy is conversion therapy.

The irony of the #bekind when you see how TRAs treat detransitioners would be hilarious if it wasn’t so cruel and inhumane.

OP, I feel for you, and for the person with doubts.

People need to get out more.

I mean that literally. Meeting all sorts of people with different backgrounds and views is a way of challenging your own and growing tolerance. Facing outwards rather than inwards allows people to discover that there are good people and bad (or rather less good people) in any group or community. Rather than facing inwards and deciding your group/identity is good and others, especially those who challenge your group's belief, are bad.

Intersectionality and an individual prioritising one of their many facets of their complex person is dangerous. You may be trans, or gay or straight, but you are also a family member, a friend, perhaps a gardener, or bookreader, or cyclist, an employee, a sports fan. Take your whole self to work, should actually be take your whole self to life. Lockdown, say, allowed me to get to know my neighbours better, which was enriching. Caring for my mother brought me into contact with a number of good people in a town 100 miles away. They may have had different attitudes to the affluent left leaning middle class people I know in London, but good people none the less.

There are two problems with relying on the internet. First bubbles form easily. You visit the spaces you feel comfortable in and so are not challenged. At the same time these spaces are more easily policed and dissenting views called out. In person you can spot who raises an eyebrow when someone is, say, eulogising about gender identity. Then catch up with them for a coffee and confirm that you are not alone in your views.

We are anonymous here, and the mods, however much we might complain, protect us from being bullied out. Stay, share your concerns and views. Don't worry about disagreeing. And in time you will find that you feel confident enough to say what you think in real life (not facebook!) and that a surprising number will agree.

This is generally a safe space, we get the odd TRA.

i disagree - this is not a ‘safe space’. This is a space where critical thought is applied and evidence sought. Where you are not allowed to make dubious statements and just demand people agree - you have to be prepared to back them up. The reason it is only an odd TRA who turns up here is because they are unable and unwilling to argue their case as they have no case. That is why the poster on OPs group had to be removed - they threatened to show the emperor has no clothes.

This is not a safe space, but it is a moderated space.

Which usefully prevents bullying or a single individual or view being allowed to prevail simply because those with other views are evicted/attacked.

There are some sensible questions you could ask them. Q1: how does someone know if they are "really" trans or not? Q2: why would anyone give drugs or surgery to someone who isn't really trans?

I don't know if you would be allowed to ask those questions or if they would result in you getting hassle. If you wouldn't be allowed or if you get hassle for even asking then to be honest they don't sound like a good group to stay part of.

There's more than one meaning of "safe space" though.

This is a safe space in that moderators will not allow bullying or attacks, actual transphobia will be deleted.

There are other spaces that use the "safe space" label to reassure deluded people that their version of reality will not be challenged or questioned. These spaces define any kind of questionning as transphobia. This isn't one of those.

Still a safe space, no one is actually in amy danger. Disagreement and questioning are different phenomena from phobia, hatred and attack.

You are right and I never thought about it before but the whole "your family doesn't love you we do." Is so dark because I see it all the time but at the time it seemed so innocent but now that I'm thinking about it... That's really fu*ked up. They never really try to help the OP resolve the issue with their family. They just tell them their family is a lost cause that will never understand because they are transphobic... How did I not see it before? 🤦🏻‍♀️

I agree OP, it's utterly heartbreaking that thousands of traumatized, confused, often autistic, often gay, young people are sold transition as a panacea to all their issues. I also think that a lot of proponents of gender ideology come from the place of compassion and wanting to protect the vulnerable. Unfortunately, for many it is too painful to see the evidence of horrific outcomes, like that poor de-transitioner, so they need to find excuses for this suffering and start attacking the person who is showing them the horror, rather than the system that allows it to happen.

In short, cognitive dissonance makes them angry with the sufferers, otherwise they will, like you, have to question their own part in it, and that's a hard thing to come to terms with.

We all make mistakes and sometimes support wrong causes, it takes bravery to admit the mistake and work on re-ordering our world view. It will be painful for you, but now you see the terrible toll it can take on people you're unlikely to be able to 'unsee' it. I think many of us on this board followed a similar route, I really feel for you (and the tragically let-down 20yr old).

Same

I give zero fucks if that’s how someone labels me. Bring it on in fact.

Well I recently have birth and some of my friends stopped talking to me because they said me talking about breastfeeding made them feel dysphoria and depressed because they can't breastfeed. And it was "hard enough watching you go through pregnancy". And the ones that didn't leave seemed disappointed that I assigned my child as a female because it matched her birth sex. Then of course there was judgement that I didn't dress her gender neutral. And a lot of comments that bows, skirts and dresses are oppressive. I think I found clothing comments annoying because they are celebrated on trans people but when natural females wear them everyone has something negative to say and it's suddenly oppressive.

I just think that most people match their birth sex and if they don't then you know we will deal with that as necessary but I see no point in jumping the gun. I really just don't want to sign her up for bullying before she goes to preschool.

Oh right and there was one time I made a comment that I got my cat a blue collar because he's a boy and they literally started caps locking at me. Because I guess enforcing gender stereotypes on a cat that literally doesn't care is oppresing the cat.

Wow I've really been holding that one in. I was really irritated by that conversation and I still feel angry and frustrated by it. 😂🤦🏻‍♀️

Your comment was really interesting and I will check out that pod cast! I think they're will definitely be a lot of watchful waiting for me. A lot of my family is knee deep in it so I'm hoping to poke at them a bit too see if they have any doubts but if not the podcast will help a lot!

They never really try to help the OP resolve the issue with their family. They just tell them their family is a lost cause that will never understand because they are transphobic...

The groups have also continued to spread the 'suicide' threats too remember. So the coercive control to ensure compliance to the affirming only treatment of society and medical clinician is layered and penetrates deeply.

Disassociating the vulnerable from any person who loves them but is not valorising their transition is a classic tactic. By doing so, that vulnerable person is left with only a community that will not then allow any dissension.

To detransition in the face of such opposition really is brave. We have also heard that some trans people will maintain their identity because they cannot risk being left on the outside of the community. I would hope this is very rare, but who knows these days. How much of it is direct and how much is a vague threat?

When you see the comments published by people who think breasts will grow back once off testosterone, or that any female can breastfeed after a double mastectomy, or that any male can have 'period' pain, or that any male in the future will be able to have that abortion that some people have actually written posts fantasising about on MN, you begin to realise that many people simply don't have either the knowledge, or cannot think critically for many reasons (include deliberate) to work out the truth.

Slight derail to a really interesting thread (thanks OP) but relevant perhaps?
Interview with the lead singer from Christine and the Queen's. A person with a complex but thoughtful approach to their gender. Also getting pushback from expected norms.
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/music/2022/nov/06/christine-and-the-queens-redcar-interview-adorables-etoiles