Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

[nauticant]

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

I was in but I've now I've just a blank screen.

Andie lolled at whatever KM was saying at the time.

The comment appeared as KM was talking about how the case had been reframed by MM as trans vs gc

KM is shooting off a warning shot here, whether the Charity Commission should really be forced to engage with masses of evidence about what will be the impacts in the future of the activities of the charities they're looking to register.

KM says no political purposes. All purposes are charitable.

However, political activities are acceptable as part of the charity's purposes.

You can read here: www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Do the purposes include political purposes, not charitable?

Our submission that purposes are exclusively charitable, none are political.

However, political activities that are undertaken according to those objects are permissible - (reads out the Charity Commission guidelines):

• tick, that's us
• we tick that
• we tick that
• no risk of that in our case, we say

A charity must stress its independence, must not give support to a political party or a candidate etc.

This is magnificent!

Thanks dworky, I'm following them and along here as well. Still would give my eye's teeth to be listening in real time.

LGBA is involved in campaigns around conversion therapy and amendments to Scottish GRA. KM explains reasons why - safeguarding children, same sex attracted youth, etc.

KM - It is important that these debates are had. A difference in view does not mean that there is anything improper going on in the discourse of debate.

Compare LGBA political lobbying with MM political lobbying.

Oooh, she went there

KM is sneaking in the fact that Mermaids engages in political activity, including campaigning for GRA to be changed, lobbying for legislative change, BB gave evidence of meeting to lobby, ie political campaign work that they did and aspired to do more of.

She went there & did it brilliantly!

This is exposing the hypocrisy of MM

<stands and applauds>

Nice point

According to Dr Belinda Bell's evidence Political campaign work is something that Mermaids do - and want to do more of.

If this tribunal were to take the view that Mermaids political activity is oK, but LGBA's isn't, this Tribunal would be taking a side.

KM Mermaids charitable aims are not being looked at here
But
Note that Mermaids are involved in political campaigning. They lobby for legislative change.

KM: EG gave evidence that LGBA seeks to engage on a cross-party basis.

In other words, LGBA is not aligned with any political party.

Mr Nicholson's evidence should be parked. His evidence was hostile.

KM: evidence of JN should be parked, he was vitriolic, showed hostility towards LGBA.

Ooh, calling out Nicholson's evidence as hostile

Excellent!

Break, back at 25 to