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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Queens for the Night

115 replies

LisaPandervump · 05/11/2022 18:36

A show on ITV at 8pm tonight that sees male celebrities dressing in drag to be judged by a panel. Hosted by Lorraine Kelly.

More normalising womanface and misogyny on prime time tv for ‘family’ entertainment.

OP posts:
LisaPandervump · 05/11/2022 22:12

Also it’s not done ‘to’ offend women.

Women aren’t even given a second thought, they’re too busy being men to even think about offending women. It wouldn’t even occur to them - that’s the point.

OP posts:
bathbombaholic · 05/11/2022 22:32

It doesn't take the piss out of women tho. It's comedy yes but not to offend women and as a woman I'm not offended.

If you are I respect that. I get what you're saying about lesbians and I can't answer that- maybe they should? But then would men be offended? I doubt it.

It's entertaining at the end of the day- their comedy and wit is also very central to it. Yes they are dressed as women but that makes the act different to a normal comedian or entertainer.

NeverOneBiscuit · 05/11/2022 23:26

I do “get it” and I do find it offensive.

It’s nearly always the same look. Large false boobs, overkill make up, frilly/shiny/plunging/stereotypical clothes, parody hair, sexual innuendo names.

What element of that as a woman am I going to find funny? Is it searing insight into women’s lives? A reversal to demonstrate the ridiculous stereotypes often expected of women? A compliment to our “femininity”?

I seriously doubt any of the men on that show set out to offend women, as they wouldn’t have given women a second thought.

LizzieSiddal · 05/11/2022 23:32

It doesn't take the piss out of women tho

Yes it does because they are pretending to be women but everything they do is a parody of a woman.

Livesensation · 06/11/2022 01:05

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Previously banned poster.

Datdamndamp · 06/11/2022 01:32

It simply never occurred to me that the pain of years of lesbophobic bullying at school could be erased by dressing and acting as a drag queen.

Can't see it will help. I sadly suspect for gay men that the catharsis is in the punching down on another group.

ItsLateHumpty · 06/11/2022 02:12

….gives them a chance to have confidence and be someone completely different- who they want to be

Why is it that the ‘someone’ is always a ‘woman’ though?

wesayno · 06/11/2022 03:37

Funny how becoming your authentic self requires an entire make-up counter.

Big up capitalism. So authentic! 😍

NeverOneBiscuit · 06/11/2022 04:41

Livesensation It’s nothing of the sort. My point, in the context of the discussion on this thread, is that a man is appropriating a word ascribed to a woman. I’m well aware that gay men have called themselves queens for decades.

aweegc · 06/11/2022 05:24

Of course it's parodying women! But like OP said, not to offend us, because women don't feature here, outside of being the object of men's parodying gaze. Initially it was a sub group of homosexual men's gazes, now heterosexual men can join in. If they're man enough.

The acts traditionally very much took the piss out of women - again, as viewed through the eyes of a sub group of homosexual men.

A lot of names and/or "jokes" made reference to women's genitals, in less than favourable terms both in terms of how they look and also - apparently - smell. By men who were not attracted to women.

A significant trend in drag has been the degradation of women. Not the only, or whole one, but one of the trends. All the while being barely camouflaged as art, because they lip sync ok and the hair/wig and makeup are incredible. Some are very skilfully done, definitely not all are though!

It's also not like women dressing up as men, that's too broad. It's like lesbians dressing up as men, choosing punny names related to men's testicles or penis, suggesting how disgusting/dirty they are. Then doing a show that portrays men in a negative stereotypical way (bro-culture, emotionally obtuse, etc). And then being on prime time television spots because the way they make false beards and bushy eyebrows and thicken their jaw line and even put on an Adam’s apple is art. As is their lip syncing to whatever.

It would never happen. Why? Because there's NO WAY the average man would - either now or over the past 20 years as drag has risen it's profile, find it artful and entertaining to be parodied almost exclusively by lesbians.

WorrieaboutFIL · 06/11/2022 05:33

bathbombaholic · 05/11/2022 22:05

If you don't get the humour then you don't get it- it's not for everyone.

But drag is also an art. The amount of work that goes into creating a drag queen is epic. And obviously the characters are larger than life which is the opposite from what they were growing up. You'll find a lot of people who do drag found it tough growing up due to their sexuality and being discriminated against/ bullied/ disowned by family or friends and this gives them a chance to have confidence and be someone completely different- who they want to be. Again- you may not get it and that's fine.

But not everything is about misogyny or done to offend women.

Why do drag artists use the term 'fishy' when talking about themselves as women? Because they respect us so much?

Alltheprettyseahorses · 06/11/2022 07:11

Drag was okay* when it was a specific form of adult entertainment and the actors worked hard at it and were funny eg Lily Savage, but now it's a fad where half the shows at our local theatres are based on it and I'm sorry but most of the performers are really crap and just jumping on a bandwagon. There's no quality control in the acts, it's just a case of putting on anything drag-related because it's seen as trendy. Hence this awful pile of rubbish.

As for Lorraine Kelly, I remember that disgusting interview she did with John Barrowman where she basically fed him excuses for his disgusting sex-pest antics. I wouldn't watch anything she was in.

*I understand this will put me at odds with most of mumsnet but imo there were funny, talented artists back in the day

Doingmybest12 · 06/11/2022 07:27

I have lost all ability to tolerate any of this stuff and trying to normalise it makes me so angry. Someone introduced themselves as Cheryl Hole on day time radio the other day , with no comment from anyone about why they adopted that name.

eyebright22 · 06/11/2022 07:39

ItsLateHumpty · 06/11/2022 02:12

….gives them a chance to have confidence and be someone completely different- who they want to be

Why is it that the ‘someone’ is always a ‘woman’ though?

Quite - why can't they dress up as spectacular animals, or aliens? Why always a diva/abrasive woman?

The straight men last night could even have dressed up as a really stereotyped camp gay man? But oh wait that would be beyond the pale, in a way that parodying women is not.

Imagine a show where a bunch of women (straight, lesbian, whatever) dressed up like the cast of the Village People and sang songs, shoved socks down their trousers, and used stereotyped effeminate gestures and voices. I can't see that being approved as a programme somehow.

eyebright22 · 06/11/2022 07:44

And as for the suggestions in the thread that PP might not 'get it' - what exactly is there to 'get'? It's pretty much what you see is what you get. I'm in my 50s, I saw drag in my 20s when it was more niche. I've seen it explode over the years. I certainly 'get' it,

KittenKong · 06/11/2022 07:46

The fact that it’s everywhere? I pass 2 shop ads on my way to work with drags promoting dry cleaning and bus services. Hideous p-take of women.

MissPoldark · 06/11/2022 07:51

Please complain to ofcom and let’s get this offensive misogynistic trash taken off prime time Saturday night TV.

KittenKong · 06/11/2022 07:52

Yup. It’s had it’s day.

TheaBrandt · 06/11/2022 07:53

Why is this being rammed down our throats by main stream media? What is the agenda here? And where are the programs mentioned above featuring large groups of women taking the piss out of stereotypes of men?

Maybe I want the chance to “have confidence and be who I want to be” by dressing up as and laughing at men?

PepeParapluie · 06/11/2022 07:56

I watched it as DH wanted to see Joe Marler, as he’s into rugby. We ended up having a bit of an argument as I kept making comments about how I just don’t understand how drag is acceptable. DH just wanted to enjoy some ‘light entertainment’. It makes me very uneasy though and I always feel like I’m the killjoy or ‘too serious’ if I question it. But it just seems so inherently offensive to me.

If it was just a case of men who feel like wearing a dress or makeup and who also do comedy/ lip-syncing etc, then great. But it’s the fake boobs and the caricaturing of women as part of that that moves it into offensive for me. This show seemed tamer than drag race/ actual drag acts to be fair, but there were still elements of that caricaturing in it.

I also just find it very irritating that we’re supposed to celebrate a man dressed as a woman doing things which a woman herself would get completely vilified for - e.g overly sexualised outfits/ dancing or being ‘bitchy’ (I’m not saying last nights acts were like this, but some are).

KittenKong · 06/11/2022 07:57

Women don’t get to do that. Any reality show - women are mostly ripped to shreds or ogled in swimsuits.

Alertthecorgis · 06/11/2022 08:04

Like most people have pointed out. There are no shows with women dressing as men. It’s always exclusively men dressing as women.

I don’t like drag, I don’t think it’s fun. I think it’s having a pop at women but labelling it “light hearted fun” or “art”. Mocking women has now it seemed become entertainment.

TheaBrandt · 06/11/2022 08:07

Imagine shows mocking other groups for characteristics that they cannot help (being gay/ disabled / your race). Outrage.

MissPoldark · 06/11/2022 08:13

We don’t have to put up with this

Queens for the Night
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