The police

[BlackForestCake]

I was just thinking that the GC analysis is the only one that can explain the behaviour of police forces up and down the country.

The liberal position is “It’s awful that the police are institutionally racist and misogynist, but it’s great that they stand up for LGBTQ+ people!”

No. The promotion of trans ideology is part of the misogyny.

And is this adopted across the board for anyone calling:

If they have 10 or more convictions, they lose the right to any investigation?

Suits me - less work for us

Or should we take each call on a case by case basis and make any call/enquiry impartial?

A convicted sex offender harasses and abuses a woman for multiple years and you still cannot see that maybe you need to ever see it from the woman's point of view. It's literally what we expected you to say.

AlisonDonut
Yes - i see it, horrible and if I had my way he would have been shot a long time ago. I have spent 25 years in the service putting creeps away like this.

See the example i gave on p2 or 3 with the guy sending his ex partner a greeting on social media. He would argue that I have gone over the top by arresting him for merely sending a greeting. But, it needed investigating impartially and resulted in him being convicted. If I didn't investigate impartially, it would have been NFA'd at court and he would have posted complaints about how bad the police are for arresting him for sending a greeting.

But - if the police are to adopt a new way of dealing with things like this. So say the public want a better way for the police to deal with a future Farrow type case - I am asking how we would do this?

Is there a cut off where we refuse to help a caller with a track record and assume that they are lying from the onset.

Would it be a certain number of convictions? A certain number of failed prosecutions? intelligence on them? What would it be - that's all I'm asking

Because it has to be the same for everyone - we can't just pick and chose who this is aimed at

Its the 'cry wolf' scenario though

We have calls to police by the same people all the time - saying they are suicidal and they are going off with a rope to hang themselves. No mental health issues, just attention seeking and no prospect of them going onto any MH section.

Can we use the same principle here and just ignore them?

The one time when they actually carry through with threat and kill themselves - who's fault will this be?

I've been reading and do you know what I think a big part of the problem is .....

Different police officers will deal with jobs in different ways - not always in my opinion- the right way .

I have actually intervened before now - I took a statement from an elderly lady that was being literally stalked by a gentleman companion who had got obsessed- but he was also vulnerable.

The cop who got the job decided to try and resolve it with restorative justice . It was clear this wasn't right .

I took it to the DA team Sgt who said no - can't do that .

Cop ignored her . Carried on . In the end the DA team took it and arrested suspect . He was a persistent sod and breached bail almost immediately.

There was no way RJ was right in that instance .

Today I was researching another case where the male suspect had committed GBH against his partner and got a caution!!!!!

This horrified me .

I think there is no uniformity in how jobs are dealt with - broadly there might be but some individual police officers dont seem to not grasp the gravity and are probably stressed , massive crime list , just want the job off their list etc and loose sight of the victim .

Unless there is a strong Sgt who says "no " then i think that's why there is such variation in how things are dealt with .

People (women ) need to kick up more fuss if something is minimised.

It is often down the the individual cop as to how they deal with an incident.
From words of advice
Rj
Caution
Voluntary interview
Arrest

I'm not saying it's massively common , and discretion is needed if you've got a cop with some experience and common sense - but judging from some of the new recruits I see - they shouldn't be given discretion . I've seen some appalling decisions.

People (women ) need to kick up more fuss if something is minimised

Oh yeah, kick up a fuss.

Like all the times women go to public places to talk about it and get physically attacked and the police just stand there and watch.

High five.

I used to work for the police, civilian role in a police station. I don't think you can dismiss people because of their background. Strange things happen, people you would never think would do anything sometimes surprise you. I knew of one case where a man who was in his 60s I think, I am going back to the 80s so can't swear to his age. He seemed not very bright and he was convicted for CSA, he got out of prison and was housed in a council flat. We got intelligence that he had teenagers in and out of his flat. Horror, you can imagine what everyone immediately thought, he was up to his old tricks.

Anyway police did some obs and something didn't seem quite right. They raided the place and he and the kids plus neighbours were interviewed. What was actually happening was a couple of kids found out about his background, befriended him and then blackmailed him that they were going to the police if he didn't do what they wanted. They brought other kids and he was having to provide refreshments and let them use his flat as their meeting place. He was terrified that he was going back to prison but the police did get to the bottom of it and the teenagers got cautions I think and he got some support. Not at all what we thought to start off with.

I'm not making excuses for the police, I worked with 2 who ended up in prison. I shed no tears when I heard about it but the bad apples were definitely a minority back then except for racism, casual racism was rife and for some it wasn't so casual. My DH was the first non white officer in our force way back in the 60s and he didn't have an easy time at all. He can tell some stories and it would probably make a good book.

Ok

I'm trying to engage in a discussion not be vilified.

I have raised these issues on a police focus group , I am not the enemy here . All I'm trying to do is give a police perspective on a discussion about the police .

I get the feeling it matters not what I say . I'll leave you to it .

Where do these women make a fuss exactly? We can't even talk about it on here without days and days of officers telling us it doesnt happen. Should we just do it quietly and out of the way? Maybe through the medium of mime?

You were the one high fiving your fellow officer a couple of days ago about how fab you both were. Perhaps keep that sort of behaviour for your locker rooms?

I was showing solidarity to a fellow like minded officer .

I'm not going to keep trying to speak to anyone who is so hostile .
I could tell you exactly what you need to know , I've raised these issues on a police focus group , im a woman tho often on this board people insist I have a penis for reasons known only to them .

If you don't want me muddying you your discussion maybe start a closed group where everyone is free to bitch and do t start a discussion on a public parenting forum if you don't want the subject of the discussion to speak .

We know where the loyalty lies, that's clear. I'm not going to bitch about anyone behind their backs, I'm happy to say it to your face. No secret bitching group here. That's a police thing, obviously.

That's pretty pathetic tbh .

I'm an adult . Human female .
And I act like one .

I've never high fived someone whilst discussing a woman who has been the victim of a multi year long sustained harasement campaign supported and enacted by the police. But I'm pathetic yes. You go girl.

Felix - despite being a male - appears to be on the side of good .

You have absolutely no idea what I've done for women in 14 years of this job - and I don't really expect you to care . But practically, I've probably done more to help female victims than most people in the woulda shoulda coulda squad . Of which you are probably one .

I've been posting a bit on the fwr board but it's always been difficult and hostile due to my job - there is a very - biased ? Blinkered? View of the police - it almost mirrors what you say you are fighting against which I find ironic .

Not all police officers are the enemy. I was attempting to engage because I am a woman and happen to do this job that's so hated .
I mistakenly thought maybe an adult discussion could take place .

I mistakenly thought some insight from a police perspective might actually be of use .

Not a problem, if I am not welcome to post or talk to the posters on this topic . That's fine .

You have way more of an agenda than I do . I can feel the hostility- it's palpable. I was simply trying to talk about these issues ,

You are hostile from the get go despite me agreeing with much of what's said . I've done loads of reading into the Harry millar and Caroline farrow cases and I cannot defend what's happened to them . And I won't . I'm simply trying to talk to you . You don't know me , I do t know
You , I'm guessing you wouldn't be this hostile at a mn meet up . Or maybe you're very prejudiced?

Is that not what you're fighting against?

🤔

Doesn't take much to push your buttons does it?

I think the fact you're trying to be antagonistic says more about you .

I am pretty calm in most situations.
Part of the job.

And before this just descends into a two person argument I'm going to disengage as it does a disservice to the wider discussion.

Felix - despite being a male - appears to be on the side of good

Felix does nothing but minimise and deflect and gaslight on any thread I've seen him on. Oh yeah, and complain about safeguarding. That seems to be 100% of everything he's got to contribute. I've never seen him acknowledge that the egregious police behaviour highlighted on threads here is out of line or that there are terrifying double standards operating against women; he's got a particular habit of comparing Tweets that hurt some man's ego to stalking behaviors and saying stuff along the lines of 'well what do you want the police to do, not "crime" stalkers? that could get someone killed.'

I remember mentally lumping you and Felix together in previous threads because you were agreeing with him so much, and frankly it horrified me. But then you showed that you actually do listen and think about the issues and take on board what people are saying here.

Pahaha that ship sailed when Felix started manspaning all over it.
This thread has been pretty much derailed with napalt and whataboutery and is a pretty good illustration of what happens when women try to 'kick up a fuss'.
It's good as a live demonstration of how tone deaf and unselfaware some officers can be though, so kudos there.

I think Felix is simply attempting to explain- not mansplain- the challenges of policing. I don't see him as the enemy because I understand much of what he is saying but I guess that's from the perspective of being in policing which no one else in this thread is .
From what I see he's a pretty seasoned long in the tooth cop with some nouse and not afraid to make some waves when necessary. I've never seen him defend bad policing. I think he tends to fight a losing battle on the fwr board as do I often . The job we do seems to make us the enemy first and foremost and it doesn't seem to matter what the facts are or what our position is . I get the feeling anyone in the establishment is the enemy and not to be trusted , listened to , we must be taken the piss out of , shouted down , patronised and vilified no matter what's said . That's the impression I get . I've posted on plenty of fwr board threads now where I've made my position clear on gender and the TRA agenda. Yet - I'm still the enemy . And that's fine . I do keep trying on the fwr board ....and I will continue to post because these are issues that matter to me whether you "like" me or not . I try to read and engage because I'm eager to learn what these issues are , and I feed back to the people that can change it . It's sometimes hard to
Stay sympathetic when being insulted left right and centre, but I do keep trying . I don't post here in my working hours so my down time is quite precious. I do get enough flak at work without getting more recreationally . I think that was another accusation wasn't it ? Are we posting while at work ? No . I aren't . As if I have time to post on mn ! I dont get time for a piss most shifts , let alone a lunch break or a tea break . That's funnier than Felix trying to engage to be honest . 😂

I don't feel that way about the police at all. I don't think most posters do. And people generally are aware that dealing with the public can be quite fraught.

And frankly in general, while sometimes explanations of why certain procedures happen the way they do, or lead to certain outcomes, can be useful, I don't generally find that the ones Felix gives are. They don't add to understanding the problem because he doesn't seem to understand what people are actually complaining about.

The complaint isn't that if they receive a complaint there is some kind of obligation to take it seriously. It's that a situation has been allowed where the police are being used to persecute certain individuals, that there are people being persecuted for thought crimes (!), and that police services are being given training by organizations that are politically biased and acting on that advice. And for the most part there seems to be no one at the top of these organizations cracking down on this stuff.

It might be one thing to have some person arrested stupidly for what are clearly legally acceptable opinions, if it was then sorted out by the leadership. But that is not what is happening.

Excuses about technical procedures totally miss the point and really are just that - excuses.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn
And where have I done that then?
I have repeatedly stated that any cop with a criminal history should be gone
I have also suggested using intelligence to get rid of them, but posters on here suggest we shouldn't do that.

TenPointsFromHufflepuff
How is it de-railed - I have answered your post on schools:

Schools have robust safeguarding policies though and external regular investigations. Safeguarding fails by schools have resulted in changes in policy and system overhaul.

And suggested that this is not happening in some schools - but you have not answered that - ref, suicidal children being allowed to walk out and the teachers/staff can't stop them. Not very good safeguarding policy i would suggest

MangyInseam
And I have said that there are failings in the police - so I am asking the question:

If the police are to adopt a new way of dealing with things like this. So say the public want a better way for the police to deal with a future Farrow type case - I am asking how we would do this?

Is there a cut off where we refuse to help a caller with a track record and assume that they are lying from the onset.

Would it be a certain number of convictions?
A certain number of failed prosecutions? intelligence on them? What would it be - that's all I'm asking

Because it has to be the same for everyone - we can't just pick and chose who this is aimed at

AlisonDonut
Still haven't answered the above points - but are you here to just push people's buttons?