Kemi Badenoch appointed new Minister for Women and Equalities

[Manteiga]

And International Trade Secretary. I'd have preferred to see her as Secretary of State for Education in addition to Minister for Women and Equalities, but this is good news.

twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1584957913059454976

I am suggesting that you do not accept trans women in women's spaces which has been confirmed. I am not trying to persuade you to accept them.

Trans women are already legitimately in those spaces and have been for decades Your acceptance or otherwise has nothing to do with the law. And it's not "females" who don't accept it - it's gender critical people.

You have literally just agreed that it's not illegal. Now do you agree you want to stop trans women entering women's loos?

We want male people to keep social conventions in place that they do not barge into womens toilets. How hard is it to be nice and stick to social conventions when you know your presence hinders others?

It is also not illegal to remove a male person who is in the womens toilets when women complain. So can we also agree that service providers can exercise their right to throw male people out? Badenoch wants to ensure service providers know they have this right, police know that they cannot then arrest the service providers or the women who complained and women know they can complain and be listened to. So upholding the womens right to privacy and dignity, you know, actual basic human rights.

There is nothing legitimate about it. Just as there is no law that says males (including TW) are not entitled to use women's spaces, there is also no law that says they are entitled. Once again it is social convention. TW who insist on placing themselves in women's spaces are demolishing women's boundaries. If you think that is legitimate then that's on you.

Signalbox, you said it much better than I did.

Amazing, these men that just blatantly come out and say women don't matter. And they are not even ashamed of seeing a whole class of human beings as second class with no human rights, they are positively gleeful.

Great minds sanluca :D
I've a feeling though that DadJoke will ignore both of us. I made the same point to him about 8 pages back and he ignored me then as well.

Goodness it's tedious to have to go over these things with this poster every single time. Polls clearly state that most British women are only happy with males in their toilets and changing rooms if they have full gender reassignment surgery. Women don't want the majority of MTF trans people in female spaces.

Decent men stay out of women's spaces. Violating the boundaries of women and girls is a huge red flag. These male people are, at the absolute best, selfish and entitled. And many are worse.

It's legal for all men to use women's spaces. There is no law forbidding them. The majority of trans people are unequivocally the sex they were born under the law.

And I think that you are missing the point.

Why are YOU so determined to discuss this issue? Why?

How does this benefit YOU exactly? Please be very specific because I have watched you cross talk guidelines several times here. You seem overly invested in misrepresenting the law as it stands and the intention of the law.

And it IS a sleight of hand twist. Your determination to ensure that women see the law in your interpretation can very easily, and indeed has, be seen as you trying to persuade us to accept males into single sex female spaces. How bizarre that you quibble about this.

So dadjoke. Why?

Transwomen do not have a "right" to use women's toilets currently. They do so because they have male entitlement and because by and large women are socially conditioned not to confront them, or are sensibly fearful of doing so. Now some of us are calling it out.

It's just like buying a house from a frail, infirm old lady and discovering the neighbours have been taking the piss with fence boundaries for years; "oh she never said anything and we've always done it".

It’s not just women who call themselves Gender Critical who don’t like it.

loads of women don’t even know what GC is- I’d struggle to find any woman who did- yet I’d also struggle to find women who would be happy with a transwoman who looked like Eddie Izzard (were Eddy not a celebrity) using a woman’s toilet. There would be a lot of chuntering, put it that way.

I find when women say they’re ok with it they’re picturing a very feminine looking transwoman who passes. Not someone who still looks obviously male.

but I don’t know many who would say anything to their face, just like many women won’t say a lot of things to a man’s face. Lots of women “put up with”’rather than risk a confrontation.

yes. It really has become clearer over the years.

We know that there are transitioned male people who still use the male toilet without issue. So, why is it that they can, and other transitioned males cannot?

And when it comes down to basic respect, if a transitioned male knows that their presence could cause any female in the toilet distress, how can it be then said that they respect women by using the toilet regardless?

Those using the female toilet are, by this stage of awareness, deliberately doing it knowing it could cause any female in that toilet distress, deliberately doing it for other reasons, or are completely unaware of anyone else's needs other than themselves and they feel because some other male has told them it is 'ok', that they are entitled to do so.

Have I missed anything?

loads of women don’t even know what GC is- I’d struggle to find any woman who did- yet I’d also struggle to find women who would be happy with a transwoman who looked like Eddie Izzard (were Eddy not a celebrity) using a woman’s toilet.

Yes apocalips. I have yet to find any woman who thinks it is ok for males to ever use the female toilets after they are about 8 - 10 years old.

Yet we are constantly told that women are quite fine with it and we are the extremists. There is a real disconnect somewhere.

This.

And I also believe that I and others have told Dadjoke very clearly and honestly on other threads over the years just how varied out 'toilet' needs are and how it is not just about needing to 'pee'.

Some people are keen on pressuring women to talk about their toileting needs.

And some people enjoy talking to women about toilets and probably shouldn’t be indulged

And I also believe that I and others have told Dadjoke very clearly and honestly on other threads over the years just how varied our 'toilet' needs are and how it is not just about needing to 'pee'.

Point being that any male knowing the very needs for females being completely away from male gaze that still persists in pursuit of other males accessing female toilets and other single sex spaces, may well have other motivations other than 'be kind'.

And maybe they should be clear what those motivations are.

So perhaps Dadjoke will come and tell us what their motivations are.

As I asked up - page: How does this benefit YOU exactly?

DadJoke You still haven't answered how a transwomen is different to the other man on the planet? Why should say Eddie Izzard who is happy enough to be his actual sex when it suits especially if it's to his advantage, be allowed by your rules into a women's toilet and not say my respectful non dress wearing brother ? (Not that I want any man in a women's toilets by the way. Nor would my brother either just for the record ) Are the words "I am a woman" really enough to bend reality? I am all ears too your response.
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And some people enjoy talking to women about toilets and probably shouldn’t be indulged

I agree.

And maybe they should be clear what those motivations are.

And by the way, not all those motivations may spring from malign intentions. Just to be clear.

But they should be clarified with the degree of persistent posting on this thread.

That.

If you as a male do this, you are demonstrating a belief that it's ok for you to distress, intimidate and exclude females, and deprive them of any facility at all.

I am no saying you're wrong - I am sure many share these perspectives - but I just don't see it like this.

That I have experience almost no racism in my life does not mean that there is some divide between me and someone who has.

That someone lacks white privilege does not make them a victim, it says nothing about whether they are relatively privileged or the reverse, it simply says that one aspect of privilege they lack.

FGS multiple posters have answered you over and over (and over) again over multiple pages.

Females have rights too. Sorry about that.