Kemi Badenoch appointed new Minister for Women and Equalities

[Manteiga]

And International Trade Secretary. I'd have preferred to see her as Secretary of State for Education in addition to Minister for Women and Equalities, but this is good news.

twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1584957913059454976

Fucking hell, you are rude. And that's saying something on this thread.

@ArabellaScott the population who voted for brexit is proportionally elderly.

they are now realising that removing freedom of movement means that there is a reduced working population for elderly care.

and the proposed solution is for younger women to churn out more babies regardless of the economic, social and economic impact on those women.

thisnis because of a view among that elderly population thst it better protects their economic interests.

@beastlyslumber so what is the primary argument for government manipulating the procreation choices of women if it is not to provide a workforce for the aging population?

@beastlyslumber why do you think increasing immigration to is a bad idea?

You have fundamentally misunderstood the entire issue @Cavviesarethebest Yes of course there is a concern about elderly care - and also healthcare, nursing, dental care, legal services, farming etc etc. It's not just elderly care that's at stake if there are fewer economically active citizens. The entire economy is under threat if there aren't enough people. Immigration may make up for some of the lack, but it won't fix the whole problem, and there are many down sides.

Plus, it's kind of anti-human to tell people not to have kids. Most people do want kids, and would likely have more if there was better support, childcare and financial incentives to do so.

@beastlyslumber its not telling people not to have children - it’s providing women financial incentives to do so. (I vehemently opposed to the two child cap for benefits)

there are an extraordinary number of innovations that are available to fulfill labour requirements in all the sectors that you mention that don’t involve governments using women as brood mares.

@beastlyslumber what are the downsides to immigration?

in this case to fulfill labour force challenges as opposed to asylum seekers.

Why don't you find out something for yourself? Your arguments are based on nothing but assumptions and stereotypes. Who said anything about government "manipulating the procreation choices of women... to provide a workforce for the ageing population"? Literally no one... except for you.

The entire economy depends on people being able to work and contribute. Yes, this includes elderly care, but that's only one part of it. Literally every single aspect of economic life is affected. You need people to work on farms, in hospitals, in government, in education, in call centres. You need people who are able to work. You need families who are involved in economic life.

why do you think increasing immigration to is a bad idea?

I didn't say it was a bad idea. I said it has downsides. At the moment we have a large element of immigration which is a drain on public resources, so that's an issue. Where we have immigrants who bring skills and expertise, that's good for us, but those people might not stay forever. They don't necessarily have loyalty or a sense of belonging. There's also issues with the mixing of different cultural values, which is not always straightforward. I don't think we should be relying on immigration to keep our country economically viable.

governments using women as brood mares.

You are being ridiculous.

@beastlyslumber hows Brexit working out for you then?

I understand the argument. Perhaps you could make it without implying that older people are greedy and anti-immigrant. Although perhaps that would demolish your argument. You are clearly happy for the uk to use the offspring of immigrants to support an ageing population but to suggest we should provide our own carers is somehow unpalatable.

Oh I get it now. You're one of those.

@beastlyslumber economically active immigrants s are not a drain on public resources- you are confusing them with refugees/asylum seekers.

Try reading what I wrote.

What the hell has this thread turned into? It’s gone way off and is ugly and unpleasant @Cavviesarethebest could you keep your ageist comments to yourself?

@beastlyslumber yiu said that a large element of immigration is a drain on resources?

it’s not.

Try reading what I wrote.

Sorry Wahine. Apparently I inadvertently summoned one of those under-bridge-dwelling creatures. I shall disengage now.

Oh it’s not your fault @beastlyslumber they’re not reading what you say anyway!

What type of policies are people envisaging to encourage women to have more dc?

On the face of it I’m not keen but maybe I’m not thinking of the same policies

Don't know. The thread I referenced was about a suggested tax break. I guess things like child benefits, childcare, ability to suspend work maybe, or maintain qualifications, general financial incentives.

E.g. in Japan, women have all their medical expenses paid for and a monthly allowance paid until the child is 15. In Germany, both parents can get a cash payment. France, Norway, and Iceland also give financial incentives in the form of monthly payments. Finland, Italy and Australia also have various payments to mothers.

I'm not sure why people think it's fascism for the UK to give financial incentives to encourage more people to have kids!

Just one example of a policy that might help. One of the reasons people often give for putting off having children is that they can’t afford to buy somewhere to live. And they don’t want to bring up a family in rented accommodation because there is no stability. Also the requirement for x2 incomes to afford the rent. Subsequent governments (both Labour and Tory) ignored this as an issue and instead continued to artificially prop up house prices and making it super easy for landlords to evict tenants. I don’t know what the answer is but young people have been shafted in relation to housing and some bright spark ought to be able to come up with a solution that allows young people to set up home and settle down.

beastlyslumber· Today 18:01
Don't know. The thread I referenced was about a suggested tax break. I guess things like child benefits, childcare, ability to suspend work maybe, or maintain qualifications, general financial incentives.

E.g. in Japan, women have all their medical expenses paid for and a monthly allowance paid until the child is 15. In Germany, both parents can get a cash payment. France, Norway, and Iceland also give financial incentives in the form of monthly payments. Finland, Italy and Australia also have various payments to mothers.

I'm not sure why people think it's fascism for the UK to give financial incentives to encourage more people to have kids!

And could anything be done so people can buy a house/ pay living wage compatible mortgages and rents? Even couples with jobs like being doctors and lawyers find it close to impossible to afford a house, then there is the cost of nurseries to contend with ( as much or more than some city private day schools).

I personally think people hoovering up houses and flats as investments to then let out at high prices does not help. Nor does selling off blocks of new buildings to Chinese and Russian investors. No doubt people will disagree.

I think that there are many interconnected issues. Housing is obviously pretty important. I personally think that tax breaks are a good option to explore and could help with the housing situation. I don't think there's any obviously simple fix, but it would be good if politicians were brave enough to start putting forward some ideas.

That's not really a function of growth, though.

It is the case that a slower economy might mean innovation would be slower. On the other hand, we can all see that constant innovation has huge human costs, as well as environmental costs. So that might not be such a bad thing.